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My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic => Friendship is Magic Episode Discussions => Season 6 => Topic started by: Queen Chrysalis on July 13, 2016, 12:34:20 AM

Title: 6x16 - The Times They Are a Changeling
Post by: Queen Chrysalis on July 13, 2016, 12:34:20 AM
Scheduled to air 20 August 2016

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Title: Re: 6x16 - The Times They Are a Changeling
Post by: Luigi on July 13, 2016, 03:54:18 AM
Looks like the identity of the mysterious black thing is confirmed then. What a surprise. :monster:
Title: Re: 6x16 - The Times They Are a Changeling
Post by: Azamonra on July 13, 2016, 09:09:54 AM
I'm very curious where they're going to go with this.  A possible tie in to the new Guardians of Harmony toy line maybe?
Title: Re: 6x16 - The Times They Are a Changeling
Post by: Speedy on July 13, 2016, 10:26:25 AM
Not reading the info, but this title is interesting..their gonna reveal a Changeling before the fin-or we gonna get a good vs bad changeling battle later?  :-[ Hey one attended a wedding so their not all ba------------wait could it be the same one we'll see here?
Title: Re: 6x16 - The Times They Are a Changeling
Post by: rarity82mlp on July 13, 2016, 10:41:20 AM
Call me nuts, but if it is a young little Changling, I want to ship him with Flurry Heart and that will stop the war.
Title: Re: 6x16 - The Times They Are a Changeling
Post by: Andrew on July 15, 2016, 12:36:04 PM
Cadence: "Changelings are scum and rapists, but they love me.  We will build a wall around their borders and get their queen to pay for it.  What kind of kingdom is ruled by a queen, anyway?  Why not a princess?"
Title: Re: 6x16 - The Times They Are a Changeling
Post by: rarity82mlp on July 17, 2016, 06:25:16 PM
Maybe this Changeling is going to be the Bullfrog of the series, for those Star vs the Forces of Evil fans.
Title: Re: 6x16 - The Times They Are a Changeling
Post by: Azamonra on July 18, 2016, 07:01:53 PM
Maybe this Changeling is going to be the Bullfrog of the series, for those Star vs the Forces of Evil fans.

lol maybe. :D
Title: Re: 6x16 - The Times They Are a Changeling
Post by: Fluttershy's Husband Southern Wing on August 18, 2016, 09:25:05 PM
there be a teaser for the ep now.

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Title: Re: 6x16 - The Times They Are a Changeling
Post by: Snowy Flanks on August 19, 2016, 05:36:47 PM
I like Thorax already
Title: Re: 6x16 - The Times They Are a Changeling
Post by: Applejack2011 on August 20, 2016, 11:14:00 AM
Spike got a full solo song at last.
Title: Re: 6x16 - The Times They Are a Changeling
Post by: rarity82mlp on August 20, 2016, 11:14:53 AM
I don't know, I liked the episode for most of it, though the ending was unrealistic and shows this is for a very young audience,  I guess I am spoiled with other so called kids shows that don't give you the perfect Disney ending like Adventure Time, Steven Universe, Gravity Falls.

I wonder was Thorax was he the Changeling at the wedding in the 100th episode and no one in Ponyville seemed to care, I guess Ponyville is more progressive than the Crystal Empire.

First of all great to know that Starlight Glimmer exists.

I wonder do Changlings have genders, I always thought Crysallis was the only female Changeling, and all her subjects were male, all the Changeling foot soldiers looked male to me.

So Thorax he is like Billfrog from Star vs the Future of Evil, showing kindness to him might be the first step to ending this specie war.

To expect everyone to just accept the Changeling as a friend, that is unrealistic, racism doesn't end just like that, it takes hard work and time. I didn't like the ending that much, but expected it, but accept this is for a more younger audience, we are not getting bitter sweet endings in this series.
Title: Re: 6x16 - The Times They Are a Changeling
Post by: Northern Verve on August 20, 2016, 11:21:00 AM
Now THAT was a good episode!

I think this beat out Gauntlet of Fire for my favorite episode so far this season.

My only complaint may be how jerkish the guards and Shining Armor were, though in the latter's case he kinda did have a really, really, REALLY bad encounter with changelings given Canterlot Wedding so it's understandable.

But otherwise I enjoyed Thorax and his interactions with Spike. The ending song was beautiful, and I just about clapped when Twilight is the first to reach out.

And Starlight finally has a supporting role in an episode she's not relevant to the plot. If she disappears until the 21st episode though the complaints about her screentime will probably continue. But for now they can be silenced. Good episode, through and through.

To expect everyone to just expect the Changeling as a friend, that is unrealistic, racism doesn't end just like that, it takes hard work and time. I didn't like the ending that much, but expected it, but accept this is for a more younger audience, we are not getting bitter sweet endings in this series.

I wouldn't say it's racism.  Just an enemy that has attacked their country. I think of it more as a G-Rated version of two countries at war, Thorax is thought to be a spy for the enemy but really he escaped from his army or he's a refugee that went to the other country for reasons that he think he can find a better life since he doesn't follow the majority of the others.
Title: Re: 6x16 - The Times They Are a Changeling
Post by: Speedy on August 20, 2016, 03:26:09 PM
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Sorry for my raging, but this Ep's ending was so bad I could go on forever, twice over. The Ep WAS GOOD but that ending just ruined it. In short, I'll express how I feel in one character line...

"Sorry we didn't take the time to get to know you, here, say hello to Flurry Her-WHAT ARE YOU DOING STOP BITING HER EYES OFF!"

Cadance putting her baby within fangs reach of a Changeling, STUPID TERRIBLE HORRIBLE MOTHER!!

Shining Armor going from a stare that could honestly kill to saying "sorry we didn't take time to know you" STUPID!

Why? WHY NOT!? Cadance its because she threw all motherly protection out the window, and with Shining its because he said a line so stupid I want to see him murdered by a Changerling...why didn't they take time to know the changeling? A, he was in hiding and only ran off when Spike didn't defend him, B, IT'S A CHANGELING don't you remember how you were brainwashed and how they might've killed ponies!?

At least give them better lines other than a 180 that ruins so much-------------ugh, good Ep but that ending failed and really put the characters into a bad moronic light worthy of Rainbow Falls. Really good Ep, honestly, but I feel really sad that this writing just couldn't or didn't even bother giving the time to remove a 100% pointless scene that hurt the Ep/story.

I'm gonna go do something now, Celestia what a bad fanfiction ending.  :(

EDIT: I know this is a kids' show, but nothing you say will change the fact that this ending is terrible and puts the characters (the 2 new parents even worse) into a stupid light that shatters everything that was before. At the very least they could have had a line or two. Them trusting the Changeling due to Twi, 100% fine, but THAT fast? -1000! Shining Armor man..really?

You ALL SAW how th Changeling reacted before and you go and put Flurry right in his face!? Yeah, hope you'll be happy as a childless family again! I really am going too far here...But it was so STUPID and out of their characters!
Title: Re: 6x16 - The Times They Are a Changeling
Post by: Azamonra on August 20, 2016, 05:00:04 PM
This was really good, even if the ending was a little rushed.  I get it though, they only have a limited time to resolve everything and I enjoyed the Spike song.

It was cool seeing more of how Changelings work, being hatched from eggs and having larval forms and all that.  It was neat seeing Chrysalis again even if it was just a flash back.  It was kinda cute how the larval Changelings all crawl toward her with one crawling through her leg hole. :D

Also I like that Changelings are hatched evil or at least aggressive.  I know some ponies think races that are Always Chaotic Evil (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AlwaysChaoticEvil) are unrealistic I've always thought of it as different species having different value systems.  So I can totally by a race of insect horses being inherently evil.
Title: Re: 6x16 - The Times They Are a Changeling
Post by: Northern Verve on August 20, 2016, 05:33:35 PM
I had no problems with the ending. Sure it may be a little rushed and heck even after Spike's songs you could see Shining and the Guards had those suspicious angled eyes. But I think it did a proper "if this pony is ok with it then so am I" cycle. From Spike to Twilight (Which when it got to that part I almost went to a clapping fit cause I love anything in the show regarding Twi's relation with Spike. So it gets bonus points for Twi stepping up first), To Shining and Cadence due to Twilight, and then the rest of the Crystal Empire with their leaders in endorsement.

Perhaps it could of represented more across the entire episode. I was kinda hoping when Spike was approaching Twilight in the middle of the episode that he was going to have them in a private room and show Twilight. And try to convince her that Thorax isn't evil. But then the episode might of been pretty much over halfway through.

To be honest it's Spike song and everything that actually I think helped make the episode for me.

But then again @Speedy, episodes like Magical Mystery Cure are in my Top 5 of the series when I know you don't like that episode. So it might be just different tastes  :P
Title: Re: 6x16 - The Times They Are a Changeling
Post by: Speedy on August 20, 2016, 06:25:50 PM
But then again @Speedy, episodes like Magical Mystery Cure are in my Top 5 of the series when I know you don't like that episode. So it might be just different tastes  :P

Eh suppose so. I mean even tho I hated this ending and how rushed it was, the other 99% of the Ep was good. Again tho why add the "I must find my friend---OK let me go all the way back to where I just was" scene? I mean it wouldn't had took anything away unless Spike had admitted they were friends before he went after him.
Title: Re: 6x16 - The Times They Are a Changeling
Post by: Snowy Flanks on August 20, 2016, 08:41:20 PM
I liked the episode, the ending did seem a little easy but I still liked Spike's song
Title: Re: 6x16 - The Times They Are a Changeling
Post by: Speedy on August 20, 2016, 09:35:06 PM
I liked the episode, the ending did seem a little easy but I still liked Spike's song

So how many Spike songs do we have now? Just this 1 or---OMG this was his first song wasn't it?
Title: Re: 6x16 - The Times They Are a Changeling
Post by: Fluttershy's Husband Southern Wing on August 20, 2016, 10:26:16 PM
I thought the episode was pretty good.
Title: Re: 6x16 - The Times They Are a Changeling
Post by: Northern Verve on August 20, 2016, 10:34:36 PM
So how many Spike songs do we have now? Just this 1 or---OMG this was his first song wasn't it?

He sang with Twilight in the Crystal Empire during the Failure song.

He also tried to sing the Cloudsdale Anthem in Equestria Games... but the less said about that performance the better...

But yeah this was a legit good sounding song from Spike. Kudos to Cathy for that one.



Oh also @Speedy, if I may reply to something regarding of showing Flurry Heart near him. I understand the concern of that, but think about this: I don't think a changeling would want to harm the child physically. I assumed if an evil changeling plot was around they'd want to kidnap the baby to feed love the love to the entire nest. Which certainly probably would harm it, but in a long term kind of way. They would not want to kill Flurry Heart. A dead pony gives off no love to feed.

If Thorax had somehow been a changeling bent on kidnapping Flurry Heart. Just look in the room what he would of had to contend with: An angry Father Shining Armor and his royal guards, not to mention an angry Mother and Auntie who are both powerful alicorns who would do everything in their power to get Flurry Heart back (There's also Starlight who's not so bad herself even). Plus he's just one changeling. You saw how the Mane 6 alone managed to keep at bay an Army of Changelings for a good while before being overwhelmed. Even if there was a bit of danger, there would of been many walls of defense. While it could be seen as a stretch to trust him enough with Flurry near him, that doesn't entirely mean it was a stupid writing move or anything.
Title: Re: 6x16 - The Times They Are a Changeling
Post by: Speedy on August 21, 2016, 09:57:52 AM
He sang with Twilight in the Crystal Empire during the Failure song.

He also tried to sing the Cloudsdale Anthem in Equestria Games... but the less said about that performance the better...

But yeah this was a legit good sounding song from Spike. Kudos to Cathy for that one.



Oh also @Speedy, if I may reply to something regarding of showing Flurry Heart near him. I understand the concern of that, but think about this: I don't think a changeling would want to harm the child physically. I assumed if an evil changeling plot was around they'd want to kidnap the baby to feed love the love to the entire nest. Which certainly probably would harm it, but in a long term kind of way. They would not want to kill Flurry Heart. A dead pony gives off no love to feed.

If Thorax had somehow been a changeling bent on kidnapping Flurry Heart. Just look in the room what he would of had to contend with: An angry Father Shining Armor and his royal guards, not to mention an angry Mother and Auntie who are both powerful alicorns who would do everything in their power to get Flurry Heart back (There's also Starlight who's not so bad herself even). Plus he's just one changeling. You saw how the Mane 6 alone managed to keep at bay an Army of Changelings for a good while before being overwhelmed. Even if there was a bit of danger, there would of been many walls of defense. While it could be seen as a stretch to trust him enough with Flurry near him, that doesn't entirely mean it was a stupid writing move or anything.

I still see it as lazy writing, remember how he acted before and how he had to back off as he couldn't control his feeding instincts? That showed he could be dangerously in a similar way Discord was, he's trying but it just takes 1 slip...the fact he didn't repeat his "freak out" is surprising. I mean, if that room was filled with a lot of love and friendship wouldn't that had overcharged the poor guy and so forth?

I get why Cadance was OK showing him their kid, but after he had that freaked and snarled and kissed the last time he was face to face with Flurry, yeah we needed another line or two. Last night I got into a rant with a friend who no matter what refused to get off the "they have a 20 time limit, so I won't faulty them for that" boat.

UNLESS they turn the scripts in as soon as they finish and lose creative control I will always disagree with that. I get they can't do much as they have other Eps to write and might be pressed for time. But let me ask, isn't the show clever? Smart? And mature? Hadn't the writers shown they can do these things a lot better than this?

The exact point I believe this Ep goes from a epic high to crashing beneath rock bottom was when Spike decided not to defend his friend. Why? Because after his friend ran off he went to find him JUST TO RETURN BACK TO THE THRONE ROOM AS IF SAID SCENE NEVER TOOK PLACE! That, no matter what you say, is bad and lazy writing.

Why did Spike have to let his friend run off just so he could drag him back to point A again? If it adds nothing to the story but instead takes away from said story, YOU CUT IT! If they had done that then the ending would have had more lines and overall ended better. THAT'S why I will not ease up on the 20 time limit because that isn't the issue here. Not entirely, its because the writers (3 for the story, 2 for the storyboards) failed.

They could had easily cut the "I must find him! OK I must now take him back!" scene, had Spike sing, and so forth. Instead they wrote and handed it in as if they didn't care about it enough to do their jobs with proofreading and such. They had only a 20 timeframe, but they still had more than enough irl time to fix this Ep's issue and they didn't. Why? Who knows, its hard to complain to him when we don't know all the details.

But again, they could had fixed this so easily I could had fixed it in under 10 seconds flat, like this:

Quote
Spike had hoped his song would convince them that Thorax could be trusted but the room was still staring intensely at the pair. Spike was sweating to the point he thought he could had filled two buckets to the brim. Then, right as he feared angry words and banishment were about to be spoken, Twilight stepped forward. The other ponies stared on either confused or puzzled as Twilight trotted closer to Thorax.

"Twilight, I---" began Spike before he was silenced at Twilight's stare. He gulped, biting his lip and awaiting what she was about to say.

He had many ideas of what she could had said, but "I'm proud of you, Spike" wasn't one of them.

"I'm so sor--what?" he asked stunned.

"You risked not only how I felt, but the entire empire" Twilight started as she placed a hoof on Spike's shoulder. "To stand against a room of angry ponies to defend a friend, I think that's pretty brave, don't you think?"

Spike stared into Twilight's face as if she had said something totally different, "Oh!" he exclaimed finally. "Right! I suppose I was brave, hehehe.."

"If Spike believes Thorax can be trusted---" began Twilight as she turned her attention her to the Changeling, who looked even more sweaty than Spike had been when that dragon almost ate him an year ago. "---then so do I"

The room gasped as Twilight out stretched an hoof to the Changeling who stared at it as if it was the very first Hearth Warming gift he was ever given. "T-T-Tha-thank you...thank you!" Thorax cried as he took her hoof with an embrace. "I can't thank you enough! All I ever wanted was to be friends, I never meant to cause such an uproar.."

Spike hugged Thorax, who hugged him back. Twilight smiled at the two, she went to speak but before the first word was out of her mouths a voice had interrupted her.

"If Twilight trusts him, I do as well" it was Cadance. Spike swore his heart had stopped beating when she trotted through the line of guards and towards them. "I trust nopony more than Twilight, so allow me to fully---"

"Cadance.." interrupted Shining Armor.

As Spike watched him trot towards them he felt all the joy drained from his system as they were replaced with dread. He remembered Shining Armor's face when the two guards had mistook his honest words as a joke. It was a stare that could kill and he even bet it could rival Fluttershy's very own stare, and it made him sweat heavily again as Shining Armor wore that stare once more.

He took Cadance by the wing and brought her into a private conversion. Spike wanted to know what they were talking about as it sounded a little heated. He turned to Thorax and the two just shrugged. Scratching the back of his head he turned back and saw Cadance and her husband now staring at them.

Shining Armor stepped forward, Spike's heart jumped into his throat as he feared the worse. "While my sister trusted Spike who trusted you, I on the other hoof---let me just finish Twilly---want to be a little more careful. So---" Shining Armor paused for only an moment or two as he turned back to the line of guards. "we, me and Cadane, have decided that if you are honest and mean us no harm, that you are allowed to stay".

The entire room gasped, Shining Armor rolled his eyes. Spike and Thorax erupted into an loud and overjoyed hug. "On one condition!" Shining Armor interrupted them. "No changing into ponies. I trust my wife and little sister with my life, but Changelings are masters at brainwashing---I should know.." Shining Armor looked down at the floor with such an sad expression it made even Thorax tear up. "As long as you are also willing to stay within the castle and tell us when you leave, I suppose there isn't any harm"

That's the best I can do in 1 sitting. ^^;
Title: Re: 6x16 - The Times They Are a Changeling
Post by: Queen Chrysalis on August 22, 2016, 10:01:33 PM
This was really good, even if the ending was a little rushed.  I get it though, they only have a limited time to resolve everything and I enjoyed the Spike song.

It was cool seeing more of how Changelings work, being hatched from eggs and having larval forms and all that.  It was neat seeing Chrysalis again even if it was just a flash back.  It was kinda cute how the larval Changelings all crawl toward her with one crawling through her leg hole. :D

Also I like that Changelings are hatched evil or at least aggressive.  I know some ponies think races that are Always Chaotic Evil (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AlwaysChaoticEvil) are unrealistic I've always thought of it as different species having different value systems.  So I can totally by a race of insect horses being inherently evil.

Yeah, I'm honestly glad they showed that all the other changelings are evil. They're more fun that way, in my opinion.

I would love if Thorax attempted his idea of going and winning over the Changelings to the side of friendship, but failed because it is impossible. It would be a good you can't win them all lesson.

Also, I couldn't help but notice the fact that they did show that almost all the Changelings are evil kindof negates the lesson of the episode. Shining Armor was pretty much right to say that "There's no such thing as a nice Changeling."
Title: Re: 6x16 - The Times They Are a Changeling
Post by: Northern Verve on August 22, 2016, 11:14:43 PM
I think that yeah there's a certainly a good majority of Changelings that are loyal to Chrysalis. But there is a chance of there being a minority of Changelings that are just born different and even seek out on their own. Probably a bad thing about this though is they'll have a lesser chance of survival as unless they get in a lucky situation like Thorax did they'll be outcasts in the hive and not trusted by most others in Equestria.

You could say Thorax being born as he was is a result of a mutation in nature. One that would be detrimental normally but since Thorax was able to befriend ponies thanks to Spike it's suddenly become an advantage for him.

But another example of a changeling like Thorax could of been that one we saw in Slice of Life (They aren't the same changeling, they have slightly different enough designs)
Title: Re: 6x16 - The Times They Are a Changeling
Post by: Speedy on August 23, 2016, 09:10:38 AM
I think that yeah there's a certainly a good majority of Changelings that are loyal to Chrysalis. But there is a chance of there being a minority of Changelings that are just born different and even seek out on their own. Probably a bad thing about this though is they'll have a lesser chance of survival as unless they get in a lucky situation like Thorax did they'll be outcasts in the hive and not trusted by most others in Equestria.

You could say Thorax being born as he was is a result of a mutation in nature. One that would be detrimental normally but since Thorax was able to befriend ponies thanks to Spike it's suddenly become an advantage for him.

But another example of a changeling like Thorax could of been that one we saw in Slice of Life (They aren't the same changeling, they have slightly different enough designs)

Could you do a side by side picture? I saw no different at all in Thorax's design.
Title: Re: 6x16 - The Times They Are a Changeling
Post by: Northern Verve on August 23, 2016, 09:44:35 AM
Could you do a side by side picture? I saw no different at all in Thorax's design.

(https://derpicdn.net/img/2016/8/20/1229566/large.png)

At first glance they're not very different at all. But look at particular parts of their design such as their back (Thorax's is a dark green, the changeling from Slice of Life's is blue), their ears, and their tails.
Title: Re: 6x16 - The Times They Are a Changeling
Post by: Speedy on August 24, 2016, 10:31:54 AM
(https://derpicdn.net/img/2016/8/20/1229566/large.png)

At first glance they're not very different at all. But look at particular parts of their design such as their back (Thorax's is a dark green, the changeling from Slice of Life's is blue), their ears, and their tails.

I see their backshells are a different color, but why the minor changes that are hard to even notice unless we do a side by side? Seems like somebody didn't even bother with a new design and decided to just "slightly" change a already made design. Suppose there's a reason, but like the ending it seems lazy. Maybe when we see more Changelings the difference will be easier to spot, otherwise we'll get so confused on who is who we'll have to do a pause and a "where's Thorax" game. XD

So there are male and female Changelings? Unless Kevin is a male too, if the Changelings are insert based then they should follow the nature of "there can only be one girl and she's the queen" why else would she look so different? Eh, maybe later. We were all complaining about how rushed Starlights' backstory was but then we got the S6 opener and all issues were gone.
Title: Re: 6x16 - The Times They Are a Changeling
Post by: Northern Verve on August 24, 2016, 01:00:15 PM
So there are male and female Changelings? Unless Kevin is a male too, if the Changelings are insert based then they should follow the nature of "there can only be one girl and she's the queen" why else would she look so different?

There is actual biological backing for one (Or occasionally more then one) female queen in a colony of ants and/or bees and many, many, many Male drones, workers, and/or soldiers.

Quote
Eh, maybe later. We were all complaining about how rushed Starlights' backstory was butt hen we got the S6 opener and all issues were gone.

I don't know about that. I think there's still some questions that still need to be answered. Like how did Starlight really learn how to do the magic she can do? We know Twilight's story. But in the case of Starlight it's at most kept quite vague. I think we still need to know more about Starlight's history. At the very least knowing how she got her Cutie Mark would be something wouldn't it? Especially given how she had a grudge against cutie marks for so long.
Title: Re: 6x16 - The Times They Are a Changeling
Post by: Speedy on August 24, 2016, 03:09:02 PM
There is actual biological backing for one (Or occasionally more then one) female queen in a colony of ants and/or bees and many, many, many Male drones, workers, and/or soldiers.

I don't know about that. I think there's still some questions that still need to be answered. Like how did Starlight really learn how to do the magic she can do? We know Twilight's story. But in the case of Starlight it's at most kept quite vague. I think we still need to know more about Starlight's history. At the very least knowing how she got her Cutie Mark would be something wouldn't it? Especially given how she had a grudge against cutie marks for so long.

I suppose but I meant the S6  opener gave more in terms of "why" she went evil. There are still unanswered questions like Sunburst being a former Celestia student---BAD IDEA in my books as it just added to "how important he is because she taught him" and it made Twi looked less important compared as now we got the question "how many students were there before Twi?" if EG is canon then that means Celestia not only had 2, but 3 students within the span of 10 years at most.

Sorry Twilight, you are not as special as we all thought, you're just the one out of 1000s that finally accepted friendship and all. Its like God going through 500 kids before he got Jesus, kinda hurts how important they are if there's been more than many failed attempts before!

Btw, when Starlight stole CMs----couldn't Discord sense that? Also looking at the side by side pic again, Thorax is a lighter shade while the other is more blackest.
Title: Re: 6x16 - The Times They Are a Changeling
Post by: Northern Verve on August 24, 2016, 03:39:30 PM
I suppose but I meant the S6  opener gave more in terms of "why" she went evil. There are still unanswered questions like Sunburst being a former Celestia student---BAD IDEA in my books as it just added to "how important he is because she taught him" and it made Twi looked less important compared as now we got the question "how many students were there before Twi?" if EG is canon then that means Celestia not only had 2, but 3 students within the span of 10 years at most.

Sorry Twilight, you are not as special as we all thought, you're just the one out of 1000s that finally accepted friendship and all. Its like God going through 500 kids before he got Jesus, kinda hurts how important they are if there's been more than many failed attempts before!

There's a difference between personal apprentice/protégé and student. Yes, Sunburst attended the school that Twilight went to. But guess what: So did ponies like Moondancer, Minuette, and the rest of Twilight's old friends we saw in Amending Fences. They were all at the School of Gifted Unicorns. But none of them were being personally taught magic/guided by Celestia herself, or at least not even close to as often as Twilight was.
Title: Re: 6x16 - The Times They Are a Changeling
Post by: Snowy Flanks on August 24, 2016, 04:49:49 PM
I like Kevin, he makes good fanfiction
Title: Re: 6x16 - The Times They Are a Changeling
Post by: Speedy on August 24, 2016, 08:34:09 PM
There's a difference between personal apprentice/protégé and student. Yes, Sunburst attended the school that Twilight went to. But guess what: So did ponies like Moondancer, Minuette, and the rest of Twilight's old friends we saw in Amending Fences. They were all at the School of Gifted Unicorns. But none of them were being personally taught magic/guided by Celestia herself, or at least not even close to as often as Twilight was.

....................CELESTIA SAID HE WAS "HER" STUDENT! How did you forget that! XD She 100% said "a former student of 'mine'" she said it herself, not me! Sunburst was her student, "not just a student at her school" but HER student! You can't work around what's right there and confirmed by the princess herself saying it! XD

Unless Celestia calls every last student "her student" then no, she shouldn't even say that if it is the case.

P.S, I was just told all the Crystal Guards are in fact---not Crystal Ponies. Their all winged, and have normal looking eyes. So, did Sombra kill every last guard and Celestia had to share her units?
Title: Re: 6x16 - The Times They Are a Changeling
Post by: Northern Verve on August 24, 2016, 09:39:18 PM
....................CELESTIA SAID HE WAS "HER" STUDENT! How did you forget that! XD She 100% said "a former student of 'mine'" she said it herself, not me! Sunburst was her student, "not just a student at her school" but HER student! You can't work around what's right there and confirmed by the princess herself saying it! XD

Unless Celestia calls every last student "her student" then no, she shouldn't even say that if it is the case.

The School for Gifted Unicorns is Celestia's though, they say "Princess Celestia's School for Gifted Unicorns". She's practically a headmistress. By all accounts every student that attended would count as her student. It does not necessarily mean Sunburst was once in Twilight's place. I think we would of been told more about that if that were the case. If there's ever any actual backstory on that that proves Sunbust was also in such a position then we can clearly say that. But we don't exactly know the timeline of events. It's possible Sunburst enrolled when Twilight was already made Celestia's protégé and thus would of been unlikely for Sunburst to be in that role

Again, there is a difference between a student and a protégé. You can have more then one student, not usually so for protégés. And when Celestia was putting Twilight under her wing she explicitly said personal protégé. So I think it's still fair to say Twilight got a more unique experience compared to most others at the school
Title: Re: 6x16 - The Times They Are a Changeling
Post by: Speedy on August 25, 2016, 01:21:33 PM
The School for Gifted Unicorns is Celestia's though, they say "Princess Celestia's School for Gifted Unicorns". She's practically a headmistress. By all accounts every student that attended would count as her student. It does not necessarily mean Sunburst was once in Twilight's place. I think we would of been told more about that if that were the case. If there's ever any actual backstory on that that proves Sunbust was also in such a position then we can clearly say that. But we don't exactly know the timeline of events. It's possible Sunburst enrolled when Twilight was already made Celestia's protégé and thus would of been unlikely for Sunburst to be in that role

Again, there is a difference between a student and a protégé. You can have more then one student, not usually so for protégés. And when Celestia was putting Twilight under her wing she explicitly said personal protégé. So I think it's still fair to say Twilight got a more unique experience compared to most others at the school

Well clearly we're on different sides of the road here, she said "a former student of mine" why wouldn't she had said a former student at her school? Why would she say "former and mine" the way she says it points more towards Sunburst was in Twi's place once. But I suppose you can take from it what you will.

This is just like the debate on EG's canon, most people (not just me) took what Celestia said and the way she said it as meaning Sunburst "was her's and not the school's" student. I doubt the show will go into this unless we get a Sunburst flashback, I don't like the idea that Celestia had at most 2 students before Twi in such a short time span but until we do get more on Sunburst's past fighting over this will just lead nowhere.
Title: Re: 6x16 - The Times They Are a Changeling
Post by: Northern Verve on August 25, 2016, 04:54:16 PM
She actually said old student of mine in the opener but I suppose either way we're kinda arguing over really vague wording/details. I still think that it was in reference to being a student at the school. As I don't see what's wrong with calling ponies a former student of there's if they are effectively a principal there.

But yeah it's pretty trivial and I doubt we'd get a clear answer on this from the show. It's too specific of a thing. And there's more important things to show.
Title: Re: 6x16 - The Times They Are a Changeling
Post by: Speedy on August 25, 2016, 05:49:04 PM
She actually said old student of mine in the opener but I suppose either way we're kinda arguing over really vague wording/details. I still think that it was in reference to being a student at the school. As I don't see what's wrong with calling ponies a former student of there's if they are effectively a principal there.

But yeah it's pretty trivial and I doubt we'd get a clear answer on this from the show. It's too specific of a thing. And there's more important things to show.

Let me just ask this---her being a principal is from EG, what is there in show to suggest she's a principal and not the funder/overseer? Yeah Twilight went there (which is weird, why would the princess' personal student attend school? Basics, friendship?) which might be the only clue usable for your theory. Ashamed the show doesn't show enough of Celestia, S1 was overrun by her but after that we've been seeing her less and less.

And yeah it is reffered to as "her" school but that doesn't mean she works there on a daily basis like the teachers do. Maybe if we ever get a Celestia Ep. >_>
Title: Re: 6x16 - The Times They Are a Changeling
Post by: Vay on September 02, 2016, 07:22:56 AM
I was pleasantly surprised to see this was a Spike episode. Thorax was also very cute. I especially enjoyed the part where Spike messed up and didn't stand up and say the truth about him being friends with Thorax. It's very, very easy to say what the right thing to do is, but when you're in a situation like that it is incredibly difficult to face your fears and the judgement of others and actually speak up. This is partly why I like Spike so much. He has a few character flaws- selfishness, conceitedness, jealously, insecurity, etc. and they are all things that hold him back at important times but that he generally will notice in himself and combat. I liked that Twilight emphasized that Spike was brave due to what he had done, recalling that infamous Dumbledore line- it takes courage to stand up to your enemies, but a great deal more to stand up to your friends. Spike owns his mistakes.

The song was also very sweet and very Spike.

Yes, the ending was a little easy and I imagine realistically ponies would be mistrustful of Thorax despite Spike's approval of him and be especially reluctant to shove their babies in his face, but I think being a cartoon with a limited time frame it did the best it could. I would very much enjoy a follow up episode where Spike returns to the Crystal Empire and finds out Thorax is still dealing with some prejudice and how while people's perceptions can change it can sometimes take a while but that doesn't mean you should stop trying to convince people of your worth.
Title: Re: 6x16 - The Times They Are a Changeling
Post by: PowerDive on September 23, 2016, 12:09:35 PM
Thorax is best changeling.

Actually I kind of enjoyed seeing a bit of the changeling life cycle. It kind of stands to reason that some would be born with a desire for love and compassion from others, rather than to feed off of it. I think Spike was probably the perfect choice for this episodes protagonist. He is an outsider for the most part among ponies. But his life among them has given him a rather unique perspective of the ponies. Spike has a good heart, and is still a stand up person. At first when Thorax accidently revealed himself in front of everyone, Spike didn't stand up for him. But in the end he did the right thing and stood up for Thorax. Spike " IS " the hero of the Crystal Empire after all, and his words carried weight.
Title: Re: 6x16 - The Times They Are a Changeling
Post by: PokePony on October 04, 2016, 01:33:00 AM
Just gonna say, I love that the show is still going with the "not everything is black and white" thing.
Title: Re: 6x16 - The Times They Are a Changeling
Post by: Derpy's Hubby, Methuselah on May 02, 2017, 01:18:46 PM
Thorax reminds me of Bartleby from the Bone comics.