Equestria Forums: Friendship is Magic

About the Board => Suggestions & Help => Topic started by: Cha-kra Dom on October 27, 2015, 06:06:11 PM

Title: What happened to bits?
Post by: Cha-kra Dom on October 27, 2015, 06:06:11 PM
Why are all my limited edition ponies gone?
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Nighthelm on October 27, 2015, 06:07:22 PM
Why are all my limited edition ponies gone?

Bits? As in the in-show currency?
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Cha-kra Dom on October 27, 2015, 06:10:58 PM
Bits? As in the in-show currency?

Yeah, we used to have it, I was a Member Plus, why is Member Plus gone?
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Nighthelm on October 27, 2015, 06:12:14 PM
Yeah, we used to have it, I was a Member Plus, why is Member Plus gone?

Hmm... seeing as I've never heard of this (I'm pretty new here) you might want to take it up with one of the mods or The Derpy One.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Cha-kra Dom on October 27, 2015, 06:13:02 PM
Hmm... seeing as I've never heard of this (I'm pretty new here) you might want to take it up with one of the mods or The Derpy One.

I'm not upset, just curious.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Leni Loud on October 27, 2015, 06:15:00 PM
I'm not upset, just curious.

Bits were removed via an earlier forum update.

Since they were getting to a point where they were pointless; pretty much the only thing being purchased were display name change passes. Forum members are now free to change their display name as many times as they want.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Cha-kra Dom on October 27, 2015, 06:17:52 PM
Bits were removed via an earlier forum update.

Since they were getting to a point where they were pointless; pretty much the only thing being purchased were display name change passes. Forum members are now free to change their display name as many times as they want.
Why the removal of Member Plus?
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Leni Loud on October 27, 2015, 06:20:13 PM
Why the removal of Member Plus?

It was gone for quite a while before Dashell decided it's not worth the trouble and M+ was finito.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: The Derpy One on October 27, 2015, 06:33:00 PM
Yeah, as Tails said, Member Plus was seen as redundant for a long time (it was very easy to obtain it, and it was effectively pointless since the Member Plus board was dead and the ability to add emoticons was abused quite a lot) and Dashell had been struggling to find a good use for bits or the shop, so in the end we decided to axe it. The old Member Plus board can still be seen in the Archives but the shop itself was removed via a board update.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Leni Loud on October 27, 2015, 06:36:29 PM
Yeah, as Tails said, Member Plus was seen as redundant for a long time (it was very easy to obtain it, and it was effectively pointless since the Member Plus board was dead and the ability to add emoticons was abused quite a lot) and Dashell had been struggling to find a good use for bits or the shop, so in the end we decided to axe it. The old Member Plus board can still be seen in the Archives but the shop itself was removed via a board update.

And there were just so many members clamoring to become a M+ despite the fact the M+ Board was dead for months at the time of the removal of Member Plus.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Cha-kra Dom on October 27, 2015, 06:37:54 PM
Yeah, as Tails said, Member Plus was seen as redundant for a long time (it was very easy to obtain it, and it was effectively pointless since the Member Plus board was dead and the ability to add emoticons was abused quite a lot) and Dashell had been struggling to find a good use for bits or the shop, so in the end we decided to axe it. The old Member Plus board can still be seen in the Archives but the shop itself was removed via a board update.

I spent weeks buying up all the dolls simply to have ALL of them. The completionist in me is dissapointed.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: The Derpy One on October 27, 2015, 06:39:21 PM
And there were just so many members clamoring to become a M+ despite the fact the M+ Board was dead for months at the time of the removal of Member Plus.

That too! At the end of the day, Member Plus just became something of a "badge of honour" rather than anything meaningful, and I do recall quite a bit of negativity surrounding it, especially when the shop was out of stock of Member Plus subscriptions in the Dashellian era and newer members felt some resentment towards those "in the club". I don't really miss it.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Cha-kra Dom on October 27, 2015, 06:47:15 PM
That too! At the end of the day, Member Plus just became something of a "badge of honour" rather than anything meaningful, and I do recall quite a bit of negativity surrounding it, especially when the shop was out of stock of Member Plus subscriptions in the Dashellian era and newer members felt some resentment towards those "in the club". I don't really miss it.

I remember when I was handed the Member Plus by Info back in the day, that was the deciding moment that made me feel like I was a part of the community. Call it an American sentiment, but the feeling of working my way up the ladder and into acceptance is like, the hallmark of success.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: The Derpy One on October 27, 2015, 06:53:15 PM
I remember when I was handed the Member Plus by Info back in the day, that was the deciding moment that made me feel like I was a part of the community. Call it an American sentiment, but the feeling of working my way up the ladder and into acceptance is like, the hallmark of success.

I'll call it an American sentiment. :p

I get what you mean, I was awarded my Member Plus too (by Icarus) and it was a nice feeling, but at the end of the day, the cons outweighed the pros and I do think that doing away with it, unless anyone could think of a practical purpose for it (which no-one could) was the right decision. What you say about how you felt "accepted" by the community when you received Member Plus membership says it all, actually... people who couldn't earn that privilege felt isolated from the rest of the community through no fault of their own, and we like to think that everyone here should be part of the forum community with no real "tiers", it's one reason why I've always tried to oppose the sentiment that the staff have any sort of special hierarchy over anyone else.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Cha-kra Dom on October 27, 2015, 06:59:50 PM
I'll call it an American sentiment. :p

I get what you mean, I was awarded my Member Plus too (by Icarus) and it was a nice feeling, but at the end of the day, the cons outweighed the pros and I do think that doing away with it, unless anyone could think of a practical purpose for it (which no-one could) was the right decision. What you say about how you felt "accepted" by the community when you received Member Plus membership says it all, actually... people who couldn't earn that privilege felt isolated from the rest of the community through no fault of their own, and we like to think that everyone here should be part of the forum community with no real "tiers", it's one reason why I've always tried to oppose the sentiment that the staff have any sort of special hierarchy over anyone else.

I used to be a member of a Forum before this one called Saiyan Island. I think they handled it best, your rank was directly associated with your non-spam posts. Acting as less of a rank and more of a quick reference of the most veteran members. After all, simply lurking doesn't make you a member, and because you didn't get any special privilages, no one ever really fought for it, it was just natural.
Not saying you should change, just talking about it.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Sincerity on October 27, 2015, 08:08:38 PM
I used to be a member of a Forum before this one called Saiyan Island. I think they handled it best, your rank was directly associated with your non-spam posts. Acting as less of a rank and more of a quick reference of the most veteran members. After all, simply lurking doesn't make you a member, and because you didn't get any special privilages, no one ever really fought for it, it was just natural.
Not saying you should change, just talking about it.
This is actually something I've considered bringing up. I've been on other forums with "ranks" like that, which was literally just a couple of words that appeared under your username, that showed how many posts you've made in non-spam subforums. No one ever fought about it or anything, it was just something that ended up happening the more you posted. I'm not sure if it's something we'll ever implement here, but perhaps it will be discussed.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Leni Loud on October 27, 2015, 08:10:54 PM
A ranking system sounds like a cool idea, but how would it be implemented here on EqF?
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Sincerity on October 27, 2015, 08:17:18 PM
A ranking system sounds like a cool idea, but how would it be implemented here on EqF?
I have no idea what the titles would be, so I'm just going to use pony names. So let's say that you have 5000 non-spam forum posts (not hard to calculate, as spam posts don't count towards post count anyway). Then instead of "member" under your name, it would say "Twilight Sparkle". If you have 10000 posts, it would say "Princess Luna". 20000, "Princess Celestia". Something like that. It would take some thought as to what titles to use (maybe things like "resident of Ponyville", "Wonderbolt", "Royal guard"?), but it wouldn't be hard to implement, I don't think. Then again, I don't do the technical stuff on the forum, so I have no clue!
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Leni Loud on October 27, 2015, 08:26:00 PM
I have no idea what the titles would be, so I'm just going to use pony names. So let's say that you have 5000 non-spam forum posts (not hard to calculate, as spam posts don't count towards post count anyway). Then instead of "member" under your name, it would say "Twilight Sparkle". If you have 10000 posts, it would say "Princess Luna". 20000, "Princess Celestia". Something like that. It would take some thought as to what titles to use (maybe things like "resident of Ponyville", "Wonderbolt", "Royal guard"?), but it wouldn't be hard to implement, I don't think. Then again, I don't do the technical stuff on the forum, so I have no clue!

Yeah that makes sense now with some explanation.

I'm on a forum that has user titles; but there are only three:

- Member: You have this title until you make 5,000 non-Spam posts.
- Advanced Member: You have this title after making your 5,000th non-Spam post and hold it until you make 10,000 non-Spam posts.
- Elite Member: You get this title after making your 10,000th non-Spam post.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Cha-kra Dom on October 27, 2015, 08:29:35 PM
I have no idea what the titles would be, so I'm just going to use pony names. So let's say that you have 5000 non-spam forum posts (not hard to calculate, as spam posts don't count towards post count anyway). Then instead of "member" under your name, it would say "Twilight Sparkle". If you have 10000 posts, it would say "Princess Luna". 20000, "Princess Celestia". Something like that. It would take some thought as to what titles to use (maybe things like "resident of Ponyville", "Wonderbolt", "Royal guard"?), but it wouldn't be hard to implement, I don't think. Then again, I don't do the technical stuff on the forum, so I have no clue!
On there they used the Naruto ninja ranks like genie and jounin. I think second set, the titles, make more sense then, with the highest levels being things like "royalty" or "alicorn".
I'm not going too far am I? I'm just entertaining thoughts here.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Mirage Seraph on October 27, 2015, 10:03:59 PM
Sorry to jump in here at random  :P

On there they used the Naruto ninja ranks like genie and jounin. I think second set, the titles, make more sense then, with the highest levels being things like "royalty" or "alicorn".
I'm not going too far am I? I'm just entertaining thoughts here.
I definitely think using ranks pertaining to MLP would be best, as opposed to general titles. And I'm definitely down for a system like this.

Unless the source code has a problem with it, which I can't see being the case since the forum already tracks post count.

Perhaps it could also be given a prefix based on Posts Per Day? So like, say you have 5000 posts, bam you're a freaking Alicorn, but if you only post once per day (don't ask how 5000 posts once a day is possible, it's an example) it's just "Regular Alicorn" but if your PPD is 6.5 or some such it'd be "Loyal Alicorn" or something not as terrible as my naming scheme.

Again, just entertaining ideas like yourself  :P
Also heh, been awhile since seeing you 'round here, welcome back!
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Cha-kra Dom on October 27, 2015, 10:10:41 PM
Sorry to jump in here at random  :P
I definitely think using ranks pertaining to MLP would be best, as opposed to general titles. And I'm definitely down for a system like this.

Unless the source code has a problem with it, which I can't see being the case since the forum already tracks post count.

Perhaps it could also be given a prefix based on Posts Per Day? So like, say you have 5000 posts, bam you're a freaking Alicorn, but if you only post once per day (don't ask how 5000 posts once a day is possible, it's an example) it's just "Regular Alicorn" but if your PPD is 6.5 or some such it'd be "Loyal Alicorn" or something not as terrible as my naming scheme.

Again, just entertaining ideas like yourself  :P
Also heh, been awhile since seeing you 'round here, welcome back!

I'm actually very glad to be back, and I'm glad people like the idea. Maybe I was right to ask questions.
I like the posts per day sub title.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Henning Makholm on October 28, 2015, 02:31:52 AM
This is actually something I've considered bringing up. I've been on other forums with "ranks" like that, which was literally just a couple of words that appeared under your username, that showed how many posts you've made in non-spam subforums. No one ever fought about it or anything, it was just something that ended up happening the more you posted. I'm not sure if it's something we'll ever implement here, but perhaps it will be discussed.

I would be skeptical. One of the things that I think makes this forum particularly welcoming is that post counts (or tiers based on post counts) are NOT shown next to each posting you make. Yes, they can be found, but having them hidden away a bit is a positive quality in my opinion.

This way you can just show up and start acting like you belong, and pretty soon you will find that you DO belong. And you don't get your low-post-count status shoved in the face each time you post.

The fact that people don't talk about the ranking don't mean that they have no effect on the welcomingness of the forum. People don't need to talk about the ranking when the forum software is displaying them all of the time anyway.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Cha-kra Dom on October 28, 2015, 02:57:30 AM
I would be skeptical. One of the things that I think makes this forum particularly welcoming is that post counts (or tiers based on post counts) are NOT shown next to each posting you make. Yes, they can be found, but having them hidden away a bit is a positive quality in my opinion.

This way you can just show up and start acting like you belong, and pretty soon you will find that you DO belong. And you don't get your low-post-count status shoved in the face each time you post.

The fact that people don't talk about the ranking don't mean that they have no effect on the welcomingness of the forum. People don't need to talk about the ranking when the forum software is displaying them all of the time anyway.

I feel this is like a gym. There are two types of gyms, and therefor two different types of people. One side of them believes they're going here in hopes to find others like them, that means if someone else shows more improvement or status then them, they feel intimidated, we call the gyms that cater to these people Planet Fitness. Now by the contrary, there is another gym, that for lack of any others that come to mind we'll call Dinardo's Fitness. In this other gym, people are encouraged to be inspired by they're acomplished peers with stories of how they made it to the top. These are two very different mind sets. And I would argue that their benefits to health are different but that would ruin the metaphor. I prefer a "Dinardo" Forum. You prefer a "Planet" Forum. Both are working models. Mine more traditional and well-tested, yours new and successful, now it just comes down to popularity.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Mirage Seraph on October 28, 2015, 03:21:24 AM
My personal opinion for why it would potentially be good is because of a little word known as "rewards".

Hypothetical scenario START!

Say a new member shows up. They make an intro thread and then maybe one or two posts in the new episode thread and How Was Your Day.
Two weeks and 12 posts later, they disappear.
... This happens a lot.

If, however, you are physically rewarded for posting, suddenly those two weeks of dredging around the forum looking for a place to frequent, 12 posts is now 56 posts and a title labeled "Earnest Wonderbolt Trainee".

Basically, people like rewards and achievements. And if getting one requires minimal effort, they're gonna go for it. In doing so they'll hypothetically meet members and unintentionally become used to the community.

The only real problem I see this causing would be members spamming boards with posts attempting to farm the rewards. Though this is easily managed.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Cha-kra Dom on October 28, 2015, 03:28:16 AM
My personal opinion for why it would potentially be good is because of a little word known as "rewards".

Hypothetical scenario START!

Say a new member shows up. They make an intro thread and then maybe one or two posts in the new episode thread and How Was Your Day.
Two weeks and 12 posts later, they disappear.
... This happens a lot.

If, however, you are physically rewarded for posting, suddenly those two weeks of dredging around the forum looking for a place to frequent, 12 posts is now 56 posts and a title labeled "Earnest Wonderbolt Trainee".

Basically, people like rewards and achievements. And if getting one requires minimal effort, they're gonna go for it. In doing so they'll hypothetically meet members and unintentionally become used to the community.

The only real problem I see this causing would be members spamming boards with posts attempting to farm the rewards. Though this is easily managed.

This is my point exactly.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Henning Makholm on October 28, 2015, 04:19:39 AM
Say a new member shows up. They make an intro thread and then maybe one or two posts in the new episode thread and How Was Your Day.
Two weeks and 12 posts later, they disappear.
... This happens a lot.

But how do you think it would make it happen less often by making them look at a "nyah nyah, you have only 12 posts, you noob" banner next to their posts?

That's the OPPOSITE of a reward. It would give people the impression that what they have to say is valued less simply because they are new.

Also, number of posts is a horrible way to measure achievements or contributions to the forum in the first place. If I'm respected on the forum, I would much rather be so for what I'm actually saying, than for the number of two-line RP posts I've made.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Cha-kra Dom on October 28, 2015, 04:33:21 AM
How many people do you know that pick up a controller and then put it back down when they realize they might have to start? Cause that's what your making people out to be, have some faith. And honestly, it doesn't mark that your better, it just says you've been active and long lasting which both equal productive members of the forum.

In a community like this respect is a loose term, all you need to do is not be mean, it's that simple.

When I walk into a forum and 'I' see the rankings, it gives me a good (with wiggle room) Guage of where everyone lies in the community, if someone has only two posts, chances are nobody does know who he is, and if he has thousands like us, then people probably know who they are.
And it's not like anyone is actually gonna stare at your title and judge you with it, people hardly do that to the mods here, and they actually HAVE power.
Your theory on everyone being scared assumes they all suffer from social anxiety and a failure to use basic cognative thought to figure out how to talk without being told by a title. Last time I checked, everyone here from before member plus was removed are all proof of people being able to handle it, and that system actually WAS broken. (I apologize if I seem rude, I'm just making my case.)
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Henning Makholm on October 28, 2015, 05:31:09 AM
When I walk into a forum and 'I' see the rankings, it gives me a good (with wiggle room) Guage of where everyone lies in the community, if someone has only two posts, chances are nobody does know who he is, and if he has thousands like us, then people probably know who they are.

That's exactly what I like that this forum DOES NOT reek of.

Here one's points and opinions are as good as they are in themselves. One doesn't need to first earn the right to have what one says taken seriously -- if what you say is good people will listen, and if it isn't then they won't.

And it's not like anyone is actually gonna stare at your title and judge you with it,

If the badges-of-noob-shame are not going to be stared at, then why have them at all?

Your theory on everyone being scared assumes they all suffer from social anxiety and a failure to use basic cognative thought to figure out how to talk without being told by a title.

I don't get what you're trying to say here. It is your plan that is predicated on an assumption that people need to have titles in order to determine who they respect or not.

I say that looking at what people actually say is enough to determine whether to respect them or not. People who are worth talking to don't need the crutch of post-count ranks to decide who they will talk to.

Therefore, NOT having prominently displayed post counts is a clear signal to newcomers that this is a forum populated by the kind of people who don't need them -- a forum where they have a chance of being taken seriously from the outset.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Mirage Seraph on October 28, 2015, 05:47:17 AM
Quote from: Henning Makholm
Here one's points and opinions are as good as they are in themselves. One doesn't need to first earn the right to have what one says taken seriously -- if what you say is good people will listen, and if it isn't then they won't.

Quote from: Henning Makholm
I don't get what you're trying to say here. It is your plan that is predicated on an assumption that people need to have titles in order to determine who they respect or not.
I don't see them saying anything remotely close to this  ???

It's a simple marker of "X Person has made this many posts [over X period of days]". If what a person has to say is taken seriously or not won't have anything to do with the title, the quality of the post is what matters. A title wouldn't change that.

Quote from: Henning Makholm
If the badges-of-noob-shame are not going to be stared at, then why have them at all?

If, however, you are physically rewarded for posting, suddenly those two weeks of dredging around the forum looking for a place to frequent, 12 posts is now 56 posts and a title labeled "Earnest Wonderbolt Trainee".

Basically, people like rewards and achievements. And if getting one requires minimal effort, they're gonna go for it. In doing so they'll hypothetically meet members and unintentionally become used to the community.

Also other stuff Maverick said that I'm too tired to splice out.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Henning Makholm on October 28, 2015, 06:01:19 AM
It's a simple marker of "X Person has made this many posts [over X period of days]". If what a person has to say is taken seriously or not won't have anything to do with the title, the quality of the post is what matters. A title wouldn't change that.

The ABSENCE of such "simple markers" is a clear and unambiguous signal that post counts don't determine who can get listened to. That signal is something I LIKED about this forum from the beginning. I think it would be a mistake to take it away.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Sincerity on October 28, 2015, 06:26:36 AM
I think you're making a bigger deal of this than it is. It's hardly a "badge of noob shame", and I have never once in my Internet life met someone who thought that way. I've only ever seen positive things come of a title system like that. Users who have been around a while taking new members under their wing, getting to know them more and encouraging their activity on the forums. New members seeing a cool title and looking forward to getting it.

Certainly, if one were kind of fanatical, they could post a whole bunch in an attempt to get a title faster, but that would be handled by the mod team. I honestly don't think anything at all will change in terms of quality posts, and I think there would be more people in favor than not. Obviously it's something that warrants more discussion, and I hope that everyone trusts that we would not make any decision lightly. We all love this forum and don't want to see anything bad happen to it, so please trust us.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Wendy on October 28, 2015, 06:39:00 AM
I'm against them. I could see the appeal in big bustling forums, but this one is so tight-knit. Everyone knows everyone, so there's really no need to make badges to see how well integrated you are or whatever. We already know that.


And no one even knows how to do this.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Henning Makholm on October 28, 2015, 06:42:55 AM
I think you're making a bigger deal of this than it is.

I dunno. It may only be a small loss for the forum to gain such a badge system, but it would be some size of loss. I'm not sure if you're saying I'm supposed to care about things that would be complete disasters for the forum, and not about ones that would simply make it a slightly less welcoming place.

I've only ever seen positive things come of a title system like that.

So, you're saying that it doesn't count (or I'm lying?) when I say that the absence of badges gave me a favorable impression when I joined the forum?
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Sincerity on October 28, 2015, 07:00:33 AM
I dunno. It may only be a small loss for the forum to gain such a badge system, but it would be some size of loss. I'm not sure if you're saying I'm supposed to care about things that would be complete disasters for the forum, and not about ones that would simply make it a slightly less welcoming place.

So, you're saying that it doesn't count (or I'm lying?) when I say that the absence of badges gave me a favorable impression when I joined the forum?

Please don't read in to what I was saying. My overall point was that previously on other forums I have been on, I haven't seen anything bad come of it. I wasn't trying to pick on you or single you out or belittle you in any way. Of course my words can be picked apart, but I feel like my post, particularly the second paragraph, gives the impression that I care about what happens here.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Henning Makholm on October 28, 2015, 07:26:50 AM
Of course my words can be picked apart, but I feel like my post, particularly the second paragraph, gives the impression that I care about what happens here.

I'm confused here. When did the discussion become about "whether or not Sincerity cares about the forum"?

As far as I'm concerned it is about whether a particular change would benefit or ham the forum.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Vay on October 28, 2015, 07:27:32 AM
I think they could be quite a fun little additive. It's not meant to be anything taken seriously. I acknowledge and understand the points people are making against them but overall I don't think they will cause that much of a problem.

I can take it or leave it. If more people like the idea then I'm on board.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Henning Makholm on October 28, 2015, 07:30:15 AM
I think they could be quite a fun little additive. It's not meant to be anything taken seriously

But what they are meant for -- or even how people use them in practice -- has no real bearing on what actual impression the presence or absence of badge ranks gives new users.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Vay on October 28, 2015, 07:43:16 AM
But what they are meant for -- or even how people use them in practice -- has no real bearing on what actual impression the presence or absence of badge ranks gives new users.

Well personally I've been a new member to boards with them and I still enjoyed them. It's kind of like having Learner Plates or Pass Plates on your car. It makes people aware you are new and then they are more accommodating to you and give you the space and time to adjust to the forum. I don't imagine anyone here using them in a cruel way- I know our member base and I can't imagine anyone here sneering at someone just for being new.

Is there a chance someone might be put off to have "hey I'm new!" on their profile? Yeah maybe, but in all likelihood it's not going to put them off posting and getting involved in the community. We are all new at some point and all have to start somewhere. There's no shame in being new or just starting in getting into a community.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Cha-kra Dom on October 28, 2015, 09:58:23 AM
Here's the bottom line for me.
Step 1: we have a problem obtainin and keeping new members.
Step 2: The only hypothesis that includes a change suggests people lack incentive.
Step3: Because we lack hard evedince, we should try it if possible; expirament.
Step 4: If people like it and the numbers of members increase, we keep it, otherwise we scrap it and no one was hurt.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Sincerity on October 28, 2015, 01:32:21 PM
I'm confused here. When did the discussion become about "whether or not Sincerity cares about the forum"?

As far as I'm concerned it is about whether a particular change would benefit or ham the forum.
I...What? Henning, please, don't pick apart every little thing j say. It's very hard to communicate when you do. As I said before, my overall point was that I have not experienced anything bad from any sort of title system on a forum. I think we will just have to agree to disagree here, because obviously neither of us are going to change the other's mind.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Henning Makholm on October 28, 2015, 01:44:50 PM
I...What? Henning, please, don't pick apart every little thing j say. It's very hard to communicate when you do.

It's very hard to communicate when you say things I don't understand the point of, and then react in this way to requests to explain what I should have understood by them.

I ignored the "I care about what is best for the forum" paragraph the first time because I didn't seem to be related to the discussion at hand. Ignoring it was obviously not the right thing to do, because you then responded by explicitly pointing to that paragraph once again. Then I tried asking you what the point you were trying to make was (since it was apparently important to you that I get it), and now that is wrong too? What do you actually expect me to do here?
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Nighthelm on October 28, 2015, 01:46:05 PM
I'm not crazy about this idea honestly.


I mean it could work I guess, but I don't really see how its necessary.

I'd much rather see the friends feature fixed before I saw this system put in place, but from what I understand there is hardly any point to do that because the community is so small.

I guess the same logic can be applied to applied to the proposed  ranking system as well.

 :-\
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Leni Loud on October 28, 2015, 01:54:02 PM
I feel like this can work, but maybe limit the total user titles to 2 or 3. Maybe 4.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Cha-kra Dom on October 28, 2015, 02:06:54 PM
Here's the bottom line for me.
Step 1: we have a problem obtainin and keeping new members.
Step 2: The only hypothesis that includes a change suggests people lack incentive.
Step3: Because we lack hard evedince, we should try it if possible; expirament.
Step 4: If people like it and the numbers of members increase, we keep it, otherwise we scrap it and no one was hurt.
I cannot even begin to believe that this was ignored in exchange for drama.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Mirage Seraph on October 28, 2015, 02:20:26 PM
I cannot even begin to believe that this was ignored in exchange for drama.
Only reason I ignored it is because I literally just got home from school  :monster:

And yeah, Step 4 is a great point, if it ends up not working out and causes more problems then it solves, then it can just go the path of M+ and bits.

Also just to comment on this, already mentioned in a super secret thread but might as well state my opinion on the idea publicly

I feel like this can work, but maybe limit the total user titles to 2 or 3. Maybe 4.
If there's only 3 titles then there would literally be no point, half the members with several thousand posts would be one title, the other half with a few hundred to a thousand would be another title, then the new members would all be the same title. If we test it out, we should give it some depth and detail otherwise it won't be interesting in the least. Plus there would be OBSCENE levels of "grinding" in order to "level up", it'd be like playing an MMO where you need 6 quadrillion exp to level up. If progression goes more along the lines of 0-5-25-50-100-250-500-750-1000-1250-1500-2000 then users can actually see the difference over time.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Cha-kra Dom on October 28, 2015, 02:23:59 PM
Only reason I ignored it is because I literally just got home from school  :monster:

And yeah, Step 4 is a great point, if it ends up not working out and causes more problems then it solves, then it can just go the path of M+ and bits.

Members already here won't leave or something so insignificant. New members is what we're worrying about, and choosing not do anything is really just not trying at all. At least if we test it we can find out how it changes the stats.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Henning Makholm on October 28, 2015, 02:38:01 PM
And yeah, Step 4 is a great point, if it ends up not working out and causes more problems then it solves, then it can just go the path of M+ and bits.

How will you know which problems it causes?

Back when I needed a pony forum and joined the one that looked most welcoming (in part, because it had no status games based on post seniority), I certainly didn't contact the staff of the forums I didn't join to tell them why.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Cha-kra Dom on October 28, 2015, 02:46:56 PM
How will you know which problems it causes?

Back when I needed a pony forum and joined the one that looked most welcoming (in part, because it had no status games based on post seniority), I certainly didn't contact the staff of the forums I didn't join to tell them why.
Because we don't need you to see the forum stats.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Leni Loud on October 28, 2015, 02:52:28 PM
Because we don't need you to see the forum stats.

Now why would forbidding people to see forum stats being a thing? I'm curious.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Cha-kra Dom on October 28, 2015, 03:01:32 PM
Now why would forbidding people to see forum stats being a thing? I'm curious.

You misread, I mean
("We" the population, do not require "you" as a requirement or key, to a complies the task that is simply looking at forum stats.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Henning Makholm on October 28, 2015, 03:07:18 PM
("We" the population, do not require "you" as a requirement or key, to a complies the task that is simply looking at forum stats.

I was not aware that the forum stats show how many people chose NOTto join the forum, much less why they made this choice.

My professional opinion as a software engineer would be that it is categorically impossible for forum software to collect that information.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Mirage Seraph on October 28, 2015, 03:24:51 PM
How will you know which problems it causes?
(A) Any significant drop in new user's post count would be a pretty telling sign. (B) New user sign up halting entirely would be another, though considering how common it is for forums to do similar things I don't think is a feasible expectation. Lastly would be existing members posting less/leaving because of it, which considering it's a test period being requested, would be highly unlikely and honestly pretty short sighted to leave because of a test that will be disbanded in the event that scenarios A or B take place.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Cha-kra Dom on October 28, 2015, 03:26:32 PM
I was not aware that the forum stats show how many people chose NOTto join the forum, much less why they made this choice.

My professional opinion as a software engineer would be that it is categorically impossible for forum software to collect that information.

No, but if MORE/LESS people join then before, than we can see the negative space. If you feel the need than you can even count the percent to visitors.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Henning Makholm on October 28, 2015, 03:35:50 PM
No, but if MORE/LESS people join then before, than we can see the negative space. If you feel the need than you can even count the percent to visitors.

There are only a few new users per week arriving currently. It would take a long time for any statistically significant difference to show up, and it would be completely impossible to disentangle it from other causes of variation in interest.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Cha-kra Dom on October 28, 2015, 03:39:12 PM
There are only a few new users per week arriving currently. It would take a long time for any statistically significant difference to show up, and it would be completely impossible to disentangle it from other causes of variation in interest.
Then if what your saying is true, then it still holds the original trait; popularity. It should be put to vote, as the only remaining deciding factors are sentiment.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Henning Makholm on October 28, 2015, 03:50:21 PM
The old Member Plus board can still be seen in the Archives

Hmm, if it is there, it must be with staff-only visibility. (For whatever that's worth).

Then if what your saying is true, then it still holds the original trait; popularity. It should be put to vote, as the only remaining deciding factors are sentiment.

Except we're not a democracy. We're an enlightened monarchy where the admin decides, based on what he thinks matches his vision for the forum -- utilizing, but not being bound by, the advice of the population.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: The Derpy One on October 28, 2015, 04:00:14 PM
Alright everyone, let's try and remain civil. Passionate debate is good but remember we're all ultimately on the same side here, so try not to let things escalate unnecessarily. Assume good faith and don't jump to conclusions about what people are saying. This goes for everyone.

I'm looking at what everyone is saying and I'm not about to do anything to dramatically upset the balance of the board, but a lot of good points have been raised here so we'll definitely think about what we can do. Having post-based member tiers - just a title, no special privileges - is something we can do, and we're looking at the pros and cons of such a system, but trust me when I say that I strongly oppose the idea of there being any sort of elitism among older or more active members. We're looking into it and all of your points in this thread are being considered. Have faith.

Hmm, if it is there, it must be with staff-only visibility. (For whatever that's worth).

This should be fixed, thanks for pointing that out.
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Cha-kra Dom on October 28, 2015, 04:03:38 PM
Just to note, I can totally see the member plus stuff. Maybe it's because I was one?
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Henning Makholm on October 28, 2015, 04:17:01 PM
Just to note, I can totally see the member plus stuff. Maybe it's because I was one?

Now I see it too. It even seems I can post (or at least I get "Reply" buttons). Perhaps the same auto-lock feature that's active in the Trash section should be applied there?

(Edit: Now it is).
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Luigi on October 31, 2015, 01:46:26 AM
It also still says "bits" on the side, under avatars, which is odd. Any plans to change that? :P
Title: Re: What happened to bits?
Post by: Mettatonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn on November 25, 2015, 05:41:51 PM
I'M OUTRAGED, THAT WAS MY LIFE'S SAVINGS