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Author Topic: The one episode everyone hates that you adore/can't hate  (Read 7460 times)

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April 15, 2012, 09:44:20 PM
Reply #25
People whine that it was written badly and that the moral is too similar to religion, or that "Twilight was being a bad scientist because she was biased" or something. But mostly the religion thing.

The moral- "I am happy to report that I now realize there are wonderful things in this world you just can't explain, but that doesn't necessarily make them any less true. It just means you have to choose to believe in them. And sometimes it takes a friend to show you the way. "

Nothing to do with religion, outwardly. However, it does have an undertone of it doesn't matter if you can prove it or not, if your friend is pressuring you to believe it, you should. And that's what people are commenting on, because it has a feeling of stealth anti-atheism. After all, atheism's main tenet is if you can't prove it it isn't real. However, I don't feel that it really applies in this case because pinkie sense is obviously working. It would be like if magic were real and you were trying to disbelieve it when I'm shooting fireballs out of my hand.
Now I pulled myself together, had a little chat
With my empty bottle, and this little cat
He'd been hiding, he'd been there for a while
Well I told him how I missed you how you made me feel
And even though that cat wasn't real
He cheered me up and he made me smile

“If cats looked like frogs we'd realize what nasty, cruel little bastards they are. Style. That's what people remember.”
Terry Pratchett, Lords and Ladies

"Of all God's creatures, there is only one that cannot be made slave of the lash. That one is the cat. If man could be crossed with the cat it would improve the man, but it would deteriorate the cat."
Mark Twain

"Some people say that cats are sneaky, evil, and cruel. True, and they have many other fine qualities as well."
Missy Dizick

"I meant," said Ipslore bitterly, "what is there in this world that truly makes living worth while?" Death thought about it. "CATS," he said eventually, "CATS ARE NICE."
Terry Pratchett, Sourcery

"You will always be lucky if you know how to make friends with strange cats."
Ancient Proverb

April 15, 2012, 09:58:57 PM
Reply #26
The moral- "I am happy to report that I now realize there are wonderful things in this world you just can't explain, but that doesn't necessarily make them any less true. It just means you have to choose to believe in them. And sometimes it takes a friend to show you the way. "

Nothing to do with religion, outwardly. However, it does have an undertone of it doesn't matter if you can prove it or not, if your friend is pressuring you to believe it, you should. And that's what people are commenting on, because it has a feeling of stealth anti-atheism. After all, atheism's main tenet is if you can't prove it it isn't real. However, I don't feel that it really applies in this case because pinkie sense is obviously working. It would be like if magic were real and you were trying to disbelieve it when I'm shooting fireballs out of my hand.

I think that was pretty much the reason why it was hated initially, and why it is not so much now, people got over the misconception about it and its intended purposes.  It was basically really saying to stay open minded and dont immediately cast judgement because something initially seems illogical but to instead acknowledge obvious truths...which isnt a bad moral.

April 15, 2012, 10:09:38 PM
Reply #27
3.  Thats what I was talking about....I think it was on another thread, but people were saying that MMDW, FPK, and HWE should be on MST3K they are so bad,.  I just dont get it :-\

Well, besides the previously mentioned fact that a lot of people think being overly critical makes them look smart, theres the fact that a lot of people tend to be very hyperbolic on the internet.  For whatever reason, people on the internet tend to be a lot more hyperbolic on the internet than in real life.  Maybe they think they have to be hyperbolic to get their point across...or maybe they just do it for shock value, or because they think it's funny.

If someone on the internet finds something mildly irritating, they'll say it fills them with rage.  If something moderately irritates someone on the internet, they'll say they want to kill whoever was responsible for the offending content.  etc. 

April 15, 2012, 10:15:57 PM
Reply #28
Well, besides the previously mentioned fact that a lot of people think being overly critical makes them look smart, theres the fact that a lot of people tend to be very hyperbolic on the internet.  For whatever reason, people on the internet tend to be a lot more hyperbolic on the internet than in real life.  Maybe they think they have to be hyperbolic to get their point across...or maybe they just do it for shock value, or because they think it's funny.

If someone on the internet finds something mildly irritating, they'll say it fills them with rage.  If something moderately irritates someone on the internet, they'll say they want to kill whoever was responsible for the offending content.  etc.

Explains it.

April 16, 2012, 04:33:01 AM
Reply #29
Owl's Well That Ends Well. It was just a great episode in general for me. It was funny and had some touching moments with Spike and Twi, I don't really see why it gets flak at all.

April 16, 2012, 04:52:57 AM
Reply #30
1. Cutie mark crusaders: To be honest i can;t hate this episode as we get glimps of what the CMC are about, what type of skills each member has, we learned a bit of the filly days of the mane 6. But its with its flaws as well but not enough to hate it.

2: Feeling Pinkie: Its an abstract episode that handles certain things quite well in my opinion. Only thing I think make people hate it is that due to how twilight choose to resolve it by converting  which left people believe that one should convert where as the lesson doesn't tell you to convert but to just accept things. Heck appljack is one of the best pony to show this. She doesn't change who she is but she does take heed and respond. But in nutshell i just consider this episode to be karma more than anything else.

3: Over barrel: I'm not sure whats wrong with this episode. Nothing feel bad or out of place, in fact my only real complaint is that we only see one female buffalo...but that does't affect the episode too much. Its loosly base off trouble times but makes gags out of it. While I must admit I'm not very knowledgeable of these times but their doesn't seem to be offensive stuff in it. (ironically this is the episode i find applejack at her worst and rainbow at her best)

April 16, 2012, 07:29:28 AM
Reply #31
3.  Thats what I was talking about....I think it was on another thread, but people were saying that MMDW, FPK, and HWE should be on MST3K they are so bad,.  I just dont get it :-\
In MMDW's case, yes.  Not because I hate it but because the way the characters are handled and the way the story is presented: that is the kind of material I could see on rifftrax.

April 16, 2012, 08:14:37 AM
Reply #32
Owl's Well that Ends Well- Everyone seems to dislike that one but I adore it.

And if people do dislike The Cutie Pox, that one too. I thought it was a great episode all round.

April 16, 2012, 03:07:04 PM
Reply #33
It annoys me that people seem to go out of their way to dislike Feeling Pinkie Keen.

The moral of the story is a valid one: If your observations don't match your theories for how the world works, then it is your theories that are wrong, not the world. Twilight spends most of the episode trying prove that her way is right, ignoring the reality right in front of her. Seriously, the girl needs her scientist license revoked for that.
The moral of the story is a valid one: If your observations don't match your theories for how the world works, then it is your theories that are wrong, not the world. Twilight spends most of the episode trying prove that her way is right, ignoring the reality right in front of her. Seriously, the girl needs her scientist license revoked for that.

April 16, 2012, 04:43:20 PM
Reply #34
In MMDW's case, yes.  Not because I hate it but because the way the characters are handled and the way the story is presented: that is the kind of material I could see on rifftrax.

I dont hate any of the episodes....but I do see that MMDW is the most at odds to the established ponyverse and characterization....and it could be riffed by bronies....but to the general population who will only see one episode, I dont think it will be horrible at all, it had many references and jokes throughout.  They wont notice the wrongly used characters becauae they will be seeing the characters for the first time.

So yes I agree that MMDW fails at being part of the ponyverse, but as a standalone episode for a first timer, I dont think it would be that bad, :-\

April 16, 2012, 06:25:52 PM
Reply #35
In another forum I frequent, everyone seems to dislike any CMC episode.  :'( Hearts and Hooves Day is one of my favorite episodes in the series and I thought Ponyville Confidential was one of the best this season.

April 16, 2012, 06:29:23 PM
Reply #36
I think most of the episodes that are disliked by the brony community at least have SOME redeeming value.

Call of the Cutie - This episode was originally disliked due to the introduction of the CMC.  They originally seemed like a waste of screen time but over time I think they've turned out to be good additions to the show and have grown on most of us.

Feeling Pinkie Keen - Had the first reappearance of Derpy since the first episode, and she was made a clumsy mail carrier, which lined up with her fanon perfectly.  OK, she delivered packages and not mail, but still.

Owl's Well That Ends Well - The series needed a Spike centric episode and he had some character development from it. 

Over a Barrel - If nothing more, this episode had some quality comedy.

.....now there's two episodes I think have NO redeeming value...MMDW and baby cakes.  ESPECIALLY baby cakes, if there's one episode that really doesn't belong in the series, it's that one.  I hated how they had to throw in so much crap that was obviously only added for plot convenience.  Making one a unicorn and one a pegasus,  saying that baby unicorns go through magical bursts or whatever, having the one month old baby pegasus be able to fly perfectly while a fully grown mare is holding onto it. 

April 16, 2012, 06:36:54 PM
Reply #37
ESPECIALLY baby cakes, if there's one episode that really doesn't belong in the series, it's that one.  I hated how they had to throw in so much crap that was obviously only added for plot convenience.  Making one a unicorn and one a pegasus,  saying that baby unicorns go through magical bursts or whatever, having the one month old baby pegasus be able to fly perfectly while a fully grown mare is holding onto it. 


That's why I call them "god-babies", because they seem to break all sorts of consistency, just for plot convenience! I think Gabu put it in a good way with the "Rule of Funny"- sure, it makes no sense whatsoever, but it's there for the comedy. Other than that, I completely agree that the god-babies just didn't fit.

Scootaloo: Can barely hover off the ground
1-month old foal: Flies around at high speeds for a extended periods while carrying something at least 5x its weight
Young Twilight: Struggling to turn a page with her magic
1-month old foal: Telekinesis, Self-levitation, Passing through objects, all with complete ease.

No way that those are children of Mr/Mrs.Cake's alone!
« Last Edit: April 16, 2012, 06:37:38 PM by Nostalgia Schmaltz »

April 16, 2012, 07:24:07 PM
Reply #38
the "Rule of Funny"- sure, it makes no sense whatsoever, but it's there for the comedy.

Pinkie Pie should be the only character to get away with defying logic under the "rule of funny" trope.  Under any other circumstance it's just annoying when logic and consistency are thrown out the window for a joke.  Randomly throwing out logic/consistency for a joke under the "rule of funny" trope is something that has completely ruined modern western animation.  I blame family guy.   ::)

April 16, 2012, 07:28:58 PM
Reply #39
Scootaloo: Can barely hover off the ground
1-month old foal: Flies around at high speeds for a extended periods while carrying something at least 5x its weight
Young Twilight: Struggling to turn a page with her magic
1-month old foal: Telekinesis, Self-levitation, Passing through objects, all with complete ease.

Makes sense to me. It seems completely plausible that unicorn foals can have random surges of being able to use their magic. As for pegasi, the Cake child was obviously able to fly because his wings were of proper proportion compared to the rest of his body. Compare him to Scootaloo, who has a much larger body, but only slightly larger wings. It's not a matter of inconsistency, it's a matter of Scootaloo's wings not having caught up to the rest of her growth yet.

Or, perhaps, her being uninterested in flying due to growing up in a predominately Earth pony village.
The moral of the story is a valid one: If your observations don't match your theories for how the world works, then it is your theories that are wrong, not the world. Twilight spends most of the episode trying prove that her way is right, ignoring the reality right in front of her. Seriously, the girl needs her scientist license revoked for that.

April 16, 2012, 07:32:47 PM
Reply #40
As for pegasi, the Cake child was obviously able to fly because his wings were of proper proportion compared to the rest of his body. Compare him to Scootaloo, who has a much larger body, but only slightly larger wings. It's not a matter of inconsistency, it's a matter of Scootaloo's wings not having caught up to the rest of her growth yet.

Yeah, but...flying around for a couple minutes at a time, at a high speed, while carrying 5x your own weight? I don't think good-proportioned wings endow a pegasus with inhuman(pony?) strength.

April 16, 2012, 07:43:10 PM
Reply #41
Pinkie Keen over here, if only for the slapstick humor that this episode's filled to the brim with.

Over a Barrel is also pretty unfairly pushed aside, as I happen to enjoy the indian/buffalo analogues plus even though it has my least favorite song in the series, it's still a cute sequence.

In terms of season 2, all the CMC episodes have been good (Cutie Pox, Hearts and Hooves day, Ponyville Confidential, etc.) Call them a Spotlight Stealing Squad if you want, I love them.

April 16, 2012, 07:45:03 PM
Reply #42
It annoys me that people seem to go out of their way to dislike Feeling Pinkie Keen.

The moral of the story is a valid one: If your observations don't match your theories for how the world works, then it is your theories that are wrong, not the world. Twilight spends most of the episode trying prove that her way is right, ignoring the reality right in front of her. Seriously, the girl needs her scientist license revoked for that.
And I'd imagine if the moral was worded along those lines you wouldn't see the backblast it got. The problem was the wording here specifically: "It just means you have to choose to believe in them. And sometimes it takes a friend to show you the way." If it had gone, "It just means you don't have all the evidence, but there's a reason behind it." Or something along those lines, I doubt there would have been as much trouble over it. The moral is valid in the terms of the story, it just loses its validity when taken out of the story and made to stand on its own.

And I completely agree with not liking Baby Cakes. Worst episode of the series.
Now I pulled myself together, had a little chat
With my empty bottle, and this little cat
He'd been hiding, he'd been there for a while
Well I told him how I missed you how you made me feel
And even though that cat wasn't real
He cheered me up and he made me smile

“If cats looked like frogs we'd realize what nasty, cruel little bastards they are. Style. That's what people remember.”
Terry Pratchett, Lords and Ladies

"Of all God's creatures, there is only one that cannot be made slave of the lash. That one is the cat. If man could be crossed with the cat it would improve the man, but it would deteriorate the cat."
Mark Twain

"Some people say that cats are sneaky, evil, and cruel. True, and they have many other fine qualities as well."
Missy Dizick

"I meant," said Ipslore bitterly, "what is there in this world that truly makes living worth while?" Death thought about it. "CATS," he said eventually, "CATS ARE NICE."
Terry Pratchett, Sourcery

"You will always be lucky if you know how to make friends with strange cats."
Ancient Proverb

April 16, 2012, 07:47:58 PM
Reply #43
OK, Baby Cakes is my least favorite.  I just didnt like the babies, but the flying and the magic never annoyed me.  I mean the episode did explain that baby foals are known to have random bursts of power, they just used it.  It really doesnt conflict with anything else in the show as there are no other babies really given screentime...it may be illogical...but there has been nothing to show that it is an anomaly as we havent been able to see if any other babies show the same traits.

April 16, 2012, 07:51:14 PM
Reply #44
I thought Baby Cakes was cute and decent, it's just they had to throw in a crap joke or two, as is the time honored tradition for babies in cartoons.

April 16, 2012, 07:53:37 PM
Reply #45
Pinkie Pie should be the only character to get away with defying logic under the "rule of funny" trope.  Under any other circumstance it's just annoying when logic and consistency are thrown out the window for a joke.  Randomly throwing out logic/consistency for a joke under the "rule of funny" trope is something that has completely ruined modern western animation.  I blame family guy.   ::)
No the "Rule of Funny" has existed in cartoons since the beginning. Watch any old cartoon, it won't make any sense, but it doesn't need to, because it's just trying to get a laugh. This is an inherent aspect of all cartoons. FiM is above just simply trying to get a laugh in many ways, but it's still a cartoon, and it has all of the same negative elements as every other cartoon. The "Rule of Funny" being one of them. It's something you just have to accept as a part of the show and move on.

April 16, 2012, 08:09:16 PM
Reply #46
Yeah, but...flying around for a couple minutes at a time, at a high speed, while carrying 5x your own weight? I don't think good-proportioned wings endow a pegasus with inhuman(pony?) strength.

Er...

Magic? *grins hopefully*

And I'd imagine if the moral was worded along those lines you wouldn't see the backblast it got. The problem was the wording here specifically: "It just means you have to choose to believe in them. And sometimes it takes a friend to show you the way." If it had gone, "It just means you don't have all the evidence, but there's a reason behind it." Or something along those lines, I doubt there would have been as much trouble over it. The moral is valid in the terms of the story, it just loses its validity when taken out of the story and made to stand on its own.

Good point, though I interpreted Twilight's phrasing as an admission that she was ignoring the blatantly obvious evidence of reflexive precognition in favor of her own preconceived notions, and that it took Pinkie Pie in order to show her that she had to accept the evidence, leading her to believe in the phenomenon even though she couldn't understand or explain it.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2012, 08:10:08 PM by Starflower Hooves »
The moral of the story is a valid one: If your observations don't match your theories for how the world works, then it is your theories that are wrong, not the world. Twilight spends most of the episode trying prove that her way is right, ignoring the reality right in front of her. Seriously, the girl needs her scientist license revoked for that.

April 16, 2012, 08:33:14 PM
Reply #47
No the "Rule of Funny" has existed in cartoons since the beginning. Watch any old cartoon, it won't make any sense, but it doesn't need to, because it's just trying to get a laugh. This is an inherent aspect of all cartoons. FiM is above just simply trying to get a laugh in many ways, but it's still a cartoon, and it has all of the same negative elements as every other cartoon. The "Rule of Funny" being one of them. It's something you just have to accept as a part of the show and move on.

An "inherent aspect of ALL cartoons"?  King of the Hill and earlier episodes of The Simpsons rarely did the "rule of funny" thing.  The simpsons didn't start doing it until Family Guy came along. 

April 16, 2012, 08:52:03 PM
Reply #48
An "inherent aspect of ALL cartoons"?  King of the Hill and earlier episodes of The Simpsons rarely did the "rule of funny" thing.  The simpsons didn't start doing it until Family Guy came along.
Yeah, I was thinking more of children's cartoons. But there is some in those as well, such as the unbelievable stupidity of Hank's neighbors. Though that actually makes sense within the world that King of the Hill created. So allow me to restate that; the rule of funny is an inherent aspect of all children's cartoons.

April 16, 2012, 09:00:52 PM
Reply #49
Also...might I add that the rule of funny is very commonly used with Pinkie....and the Babies appear to be primarily one shot characters in a Pinkie Pie episdode.  Again, although I didnt like that episode, I didnt see any technically bad aspects to it, it just felt...childish I guess