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Author Topic: The Anime & Manga Thread (Almost) Anything goes!  (Read 121447 times)

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April 16, 2018, 07:03:17 AM
Reply #3900
No thoughts on MP100 OVA, Mirage?
See the bunny bees and puffs of steam from singing kettles in the trees. Bread and butterflies with fork and knives who like to make a meal of time.
Life is clockwork quick - lightning slow. Faster on your toes, so eat your sugared dream and taste the day before it runs away.
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April 16, 2018, 02:05:07 PM
Reply #3901

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April 16, 2018, 06:52:50 PM
Reply #3902
Megalo Box... Goddamn I love this series. Gritty cyberpunk boxing would sell me on the tags alone, but this is actually good. I don't know what they did with the animation, but it's got that rough, late 80's-90's look; I know it's just digital effects, but this show would paradoxically not look as good if it looked "better". Something like this needs to be rough around the edges. This works best in action shots, but in still shots I can see some of the tricks they used, roughing things up with porous line art and keeping things darker and blurry. If they wanted a 90's piece, which they obviously did, then they should have hand drawn it; of course that's probably an unfair request since no one does that, and I'm sure there are deadlines which couldn't be met were they going full-retro. Regardless, I love how it looks: the style as well as the character and setting designs.

Then there's the soundtrack which I must have. I get some serious Samurai Champloo vibes though maybe that's just because the OST is urban, and JD looks a bit like Mugen with his cool guy wavy hair. By the way, COMA-CHI singing the ED - why do female Japanese rappers sound so awesome?

And on the subject of the ED, the OP is so 90's that I want to crank up some Metallica while chugging Surge. Seriously, why isn't there more stuff like this? Wolves are cool. Motorcycles are cool. Fire is cool. Play some metal and show wolves, motorcyles, and a tire fire.
See the bunny bees and puffs of steam from singing kettles in the trees. Bread and butterflies with fork and knives who like to make a meal of time.
Life is clockwork quick - lightning slow. Faster on your toes, so eat your sugared dream and taste the day before it runs away.
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April 16, 2018, 10:23:00 PM
Reply #3903
Megalo Box... Goddamn I love this series. Gritty cyberpunk boxing would sell me on the tags alone, but this is actually good. I don't know what they did with the animation, but it's got that rough, late 80's-90's look; I know it's just digital effects, but this show would paradoxically not look as good if it looked "better". Something like this needs to be rough around the edges. This works best in action shots, but in still shots I can see some of the tricks they used, roughing things up with porous line art and keeping things darker and blurry. If they wanted a 90's piece, which they obviously did, then they should have hand drawn it; of course that's probably an unfair request since no one does that, and I'm sure there are deadlines which couldn't be met were they going full-retro. Regardless, I love how it looks: the style as well as the character and setting designs.

I wish I could agree with this. I respect the directors thought process but to me it just looks like watching a show in Standard Definition... Because that's what we're doing. They literally just downscaled/upscaled the resolution. And I'm using the term literally in its proper definition here, that's exactly what they did.

There's definitely a lot of animation techniques going on to help give it a push but it really didn't need to look like Hajime no Ippo's first season for it to look like a classic anime. In some cases the way they did it DOES work... But character shots from more than a few meters away just look too blurry.

But again, I respect the directors line of reasoning enough to give it something of a pass.

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Then there's the soundtrack which I must have. I get some serious Samurai Champloo vibes though maybe that's just because the OST is urban, and JD looks a bit like Mugen with his cool guy wavy hair. By the way, COMA-CHI singing the ED - why do female Japanese rappers sound so awesome?

Yeah I'll definitely be buying the OST for this show presuming it's made digitally available. Even if every episode after #2 is a complete dumpster fire, I gotta support the music side of this. And yeah, normally I'm against "credits" OP/EDs, choice of doing so with Megalo Box is probably one of the few times I'm completely behind the decision.

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April 17, 2018, 10:20:44 PM
Reply #3904
I started Golden Kamuy. The first episode has some questionable CGI to put it mildly, but it's only in a few instances as opposed to being a core part of the animation. Thus in all it's a pretty good show. I like the characters, find the plot inteesting, and find it cool that it takes place in Hokkaido. I don't know if I've seen an anime that features Hokkaido as well as the Ainu.
See the bunny bees and puffs of steam from singing kettles in the trees. Bread and butterflies with fork and knives who like to make a meal of time.
Life is clockwork quick - lightning slow. Faster on your toes, so eat your sugared dream and taste the day before it runs away.
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April 18, 2018, 11:57:35 AM
Reply #3905
I started Kyōsōgiga as well. Words can't do the visuals justice. I won't even try.
See the bunny bees and puffs of steam from singing kettles in the trees. Bread and butterflies with fork and knives who like to make a meal of time.
Life is clockwork quick - lightning slow. Faster on your toes, so eat your sugared dream and taste the day before it runs away.
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April 19, 2018, 06:01:11 AM
Reply #3906
I guess I'm adding 3D Kanajo Real Girl to my watch list because I guess my current load just wasn't enough. After not really watching much last season I guess I just wanna watch a lot or something.

Anyways it's cute, that's really all I can say about it off the first episode. OP is okay, ED is okay. Another romance show that just gets them into the relationship in one episode so we can actually enjoy the good part of a romance show.

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April 19, 2018, 03:57:58 PM
Reply #3907
I wish I could agree with this. I respect the directors thought process but to me it just looks like watching a show in Standard Definition... Because that's what we're doing. They literally just downscaled/upscaled the resolution. And I'm using the term literally in its proper definition here, that's exactly what they did.

There's definitely a lot of animation techniques going on to help give it a push but it really didn't need to look like Hajime no Ippo's first season for it to look like a classic anime. In some cases the way they did it DOES work... But character shots from more than a few meters away just look too blurry.

But again, I respect the directors line of reasoning enough to give it something of a pass.

Yeah I'll definitely be buying the OST for this show presuming it's made digitally available. Even if every episode after #2 is a complete dumpster fire, I gotta support the music side of this. And yeah, normally I'm against "credits" OP/EDs, choice of doing so with Megalo Box is probably one of the few times I'm completely behind the decision.

So how did you figure out that it was downscaled? Or was it recorded in SD to begin with in order to give it a "Tranferred over several tapes" look? Also how did they make it look so hand drawn on cel?

But let's say you're 100% right and then some, and they pulled out every dirty trick to cash in on all that sweet, untapped 90sfag hype. If that were the case then I don't know how to feel. I really like MLB, but I see other people complaining about it being SD - more people complaining about that actually as opposed to the ones who would have preferred straight retro style production.

This makes me think about the retro gaming argument as well and the case people make for why 8-32 bit games shouldn't be made anymore. Granted, there's more nuance than how I just put it, but as I'm sure you know, one popular argument boils down to, "We're in the 21st century, so quit masturbating to the 80's and 90's." Oddly, I don't see much of this - barely any in fact - surface in film. Besides the most cursory of throwbacks, almost always confined to visual and audio references (I'm looking at you Ready Player One), there isn't much film that shoots in old stock. Yes, you have your Christopher Nolans who do everything on film, but there's no cutting room what isn't digital.

Anyway, I can't help but get lost in the old timey visuals of MLB. I guess if all the dirty tricks are a bridge too far for some people (certainly the case from the posts I've been reading) then I wouldn't really fault anyone who doesn't like it as a result. After all, the greater the risk, the greater the divide that's sure to be present. I just happen to fall on the "I love this!" side this time. Moreover while I can understand why a lot of weenies who've been spoiled on 1080p people would be turned off by the visuals, what baffles me is some of their reasons. Many comments are different forms of, "Just... why? Why would they do this?" It's obvious, right? I'm seeing a lot of people saying that the production staff squandered their resources. It makes me think that a lot of these guys just don't get the allure of older anime.

I'm reminded of Belloq's speech in Raiders of the Lost Arc about how a worthless trinket becomes priceless if buried long enough. We're knee deep in a cultural era of neo-primitive, renaissance-revival, or whatever you want to call retro throwbacks. I only hope that what we saw for retro games on the indie market will also happen with anime. I hate CGI mixed with 2D, and when action is too clean because it's sticking to a wireframe model, it's boring as hell to me as well. Give me old Bones and Gainax action, and if encoding it in 740p somehow makes the backgrounds look hand drawn and the movement drawn frame by frame, then pull out all the dirty tricks in the book. I'm eating it up.
See the bunny bees and puffs of steam from singing kettles in the trees. Bread and butterflies with fork and knives who like to make a meal of time.
Life is clockwork quick - lightning slow. Faster on your toes, so eat your sugared dream and taste the day before it runs away.
Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.

April 19, 2018, 04:57:56 PM
Reply #3908
So how did you figure out that it was downscaled? Or was it recorded in SD to begin with in order to give it a "Tranferred over several tapes" look? Also how did they make it look so hand drawn on cel?


No need to figure it out when the director confirms it himself. Give this a read.

First, this is ultimately a passion project anime, there is no Megalo Box manga, they won't make big bucks off of a physical release no matter how popular this show is. Most people buying merch want cute girl merch, so any Junk Dog figurines aren't going to blow up the market in popularity. So, even if I dislike the downscaling/upscaling in the visuals, I have extreme respect for the amount of effort going into this show.

As for why I specifically dislike the downscaling/upscaling is simple. A LOT of work goes into making a show look as crisp and detailed as possible, and I want to see that effort. "roughing it up" sacrifices a lot of that detail work for the sake of nostalgia. That's hard to justify. And for a lot of people, especially people who watch anime primarily for great animation, degradation in visuals is an absolute sin.

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April 19, 2018, 11:16:37 PM
Reply #3909
No need to figure it out when the director confirms it himself. Give this a read.

First, this is ultimately a passion project anime, there is no Megalo Box manga, they won't make big bucks off of a physical release no matter how popular this show is. Most people buying merch want cute girl merch, so any Junk Dog figurines aren't going to blow up the market in popularity. So, even if I dislike the downscaling/upscaling in the visuals, I have extreme respect for the amount of effort going into this show.

As for why I specifically dislike the downscaling/upscaling is simple. A LOT of work goes into making a show look as crisp and detailed as possible, and I want to see that effort. "roughing it up" sacrifices a lot of that detail work for the sake of nostalgia. That's hard to justify. And for a lot of people, especially people who watch anime primarily for great animation, degradation in visuals is an absolute sin.

I will still taking intentional downscaling over CG cut-ins in which objects move at different FPS while also messing with my depth perception. Also I legitimately like the look of older anime like Cowboy Bebop over most recent stuff. My philosophy on animation is that one does not need to be grand and beautiful as possible just because the medium allows for it. I'll take Kill la Kill and Little Witch Academia with their more simplistic approach to certain aspects over the slickest, shiniest shōnen battle series. Hence I not only like the look of MLB but wish there were more shows that looked like it. I do watch anime for the animation, and what MLB is doing is my thing.
See the bunny bees and puffs of steam from singing kettles in the trees. Bread and butterflies with fork and knives who like to make a meal of time.
Life is clockwork quick - lightning slow. Faster on your toes, so eat your sugared dream and taste the day before it runs away.
Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.

Yesterday at 01:09:03 AM
Reply #3910
I will still taking intentional downscaling over CG cut-ins in which objects move at different FPS while also messing with my depth perception.

Hm, aren't those separate problems though? It's not as if had they not down-upscaled the resolution, they'd have to add in some CGI Toyotas to fit some imaginary quota.

Making a show look 90's should be entirely confined to the animation techniques, which Megalo Box absolutely nails. If it takes watching a show in 480p to have a nostalgia kick then watch every anime on a CRT and that should do the trick. And I hope Cowboy Bebop's iconic animation isn't just tied to the resolution it was displayed in.

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Yesterday at 02:30:38 AM
Reply #3911
Hm, aren't those separate problems though? It's not as if had they not down-upscaled the resolution, they'd have to add in some CGI Toyotas to fit some imaginary quota.

Making a show look 90's should be entirely confined to the animation techniques, which Megalo Box absolutely nails. If it takes watching a show in 480p to have a nostalgia kick then watch every anime on a CRT and that should do the trick. And I hope Cowboy Bebop's iconic animation isn't just tied to the resolution it was displayed in.

The resolution makes the art what it is IMO. I think that if Cowboy Bebop was made today exactly the same but HD, it would look fundamentally different. I think it's an accidental style: lines being blurry and colors slightly off-tone. Granted I am talking about the art as opposed to the animation. Is resolution tied to frame rate? Could you run something in 480 at 60fps?

Also the team may well have only gone with SD to score nostalgia points, but I think saying that employing a technique only works for nostalgia is selling it too short. I'd liken it to intentionally shooting pictures in black and white or recording music analogue. Though things may be outdated, they gain A E S T H E T I C appreciation. To put it as simply as I can, I think low-res anime can look really cool if the art and animation are on point. If that makes me a heretic then so be it. I've already lost my weeb legitimacy by not thinking that Madoka Magica is the best thing since sliced bread.
See the bunny bees and puffs of steam from singing kettles in the trees. Bread and butterflies with fork and knives who like to make a meal of time.
Life is clockwork quick - lightning slow. Faster on your toes, so eat your sugared dream and taste the day before it runs away.
Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.

Yesterday at 03:10:14 AM
Reply #3912
The resolution makes the art what it is IMO. I think that if Cowboy Bebop was made today exactly the same but HD, it would look fundamentally different. I think it's an accidental style: lines being blurry and colors slightly off-tone. Granted I am talking about the art as opposed to the animation. Is resolution tied to frame rate? Could you run something in 480 at 60fps?

For the sake of avoiding circular arguments, I'm just gonna agree to disagree. I just don't personally think resolution has anything to do with artistic style. Rough edges and off tone colors, those are one thing, but setting a youtube video from 1080p to 480p is another.

Though yes, you can run lower resolutions at higher frame rates. Resolution is ultimately just the number of pixels on the screen, nothing else. The reason you typically see "60fps 480p" is because most of the time people watching stuff at low quality is because of download limits, so 30fps is just something of a standard for low resolution to keep file size down.

Though anime is typically always designed from the ground up to run at 24fps; CGI is overlayed on top which is why it sticks out and doesn't match the FPS. This is why videos on youtube that say "ANIME FIGHT ICHIGO VS GOKU 60FPS" or whatever look so weird, because it's not like raw footage or something, they just put it in some software that auto tweens frames. It looks worse but people who don't know how animation works and just want higher FPS drool all over that junk.

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Yesterday at 05:08:37 AM
Reply #3913
For the sake of avoiding circular arguments, I'm just gonna agree to disagree. I just don't personally think resolution has anything to do with artistic style. Rough edges and off tone colors, those are one thing, but setting a youtube video from 1080p to 480p is another.

Though yes, you can run lower resolutions at higher frame rates. Resolution is ultimately just the number of pixels on the screen, nothing else. The reason you typically see "60fps 480p" is because most of the time people watching stuff at low quality is because of download limits, so 30fps is just something of a standard for low resolution to keep file size down.

Though anime is typically always designed from the ground up to run at 24fps; CGI is overlayed on top which is why it sticks out and doesn't match the FPS. This is why videos on youtube that say "ANIME FIGHT ICHIGO VS GOKU 60FPS" or whatever look so weird, because it's not like raw footage or something, they just put it in some software that auto tweens frames. It looks worse but people who don't know how animation works and just want higher FPS drool all over that junk.

I don't see big, visible pixels on MLB though. When you turn down the res on YouTube videos, that's usually the first thing that happens.
See the bunny bees and puffs of steam from singing kettles in the trees. Bread and butterflies with fork and knives who like to make a meal of time.
Life is clockwork quick - lightning slow. Faster on your toes, so eat your sugared dream and taste the day before it runs away.
Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.

Yesterday at 06:36:35 AM
Reply #3914
I don't see big, visible pixels on MLB though. When you turn down the res on YouTube videos, that's usually the first thing that happens.

This is where things get a bit more technical. Video quality is more than resolution, you also have to account for bit rate and video encoding. Youtube, and most streaming sites for that matter, want videos to load as fast as possible so they cut bit rates, especially for low quality videos, which absolutely murders video fidelity. So more blocky visuals. Even 1080p can look like a dumpster fire if you cut the bit rate down to 32kbs or something extreme. Crunchyroll went under fire because of them cutting bit rates for older shows making them look like Youtube videos. They never did fix most of those older shows~

If you're watching Megalo Box, especially if you're ripping it, chances are you're watching it at a high bit rate and at a high resolution, so no blocky pixels. Standard Definition instead of High Definition. Still looks really good... But it could've looked even better.

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Yesterday at 07:20:03 AM
Reply #3915
This is where things get a bit more technical. Video quality is more than resolution, you also have to account for bit rate and video encoding. Youtube, and most streaming sites for that matter, want videos to load as fast as possible so they cut bit rates, especially for low quality videos, which absolutely murders video fidelity. So more blocky visuals. Even 1080p can look like a dumpster fire if you cut the bit rate down to 32kbs or something extreme. Crunchyroll went under fire because of them cutting bit rates for older shows making them look like Youtube videos. They never did fix most of those older shows~
I'm just waiting for the day when they go down the Hulu path and completely restrict certain shows while putting ads in for subscribers which can only be removed with a more expensive membership. That's the day I jump on the pirate ship.

Quote
If you're watching Megalo Box, especially if you're ripping it, chances are you're watching it at a high bit rate and at a high resolution, so no blocky pixels. Standard Definition instead of High Definition. Still looks really good... But it could've looked even better.
Then it's here that we agree to disagree - unless you can show me an example of a show made recently but in the art and animation style of an older work and also HD. Right now, I can't picture it. Then again, I may still prefer SD. I'm the type of insufferable git who likes the scratchiness on vinyls and whatnot.
See the bunny bees and puffs of steam from singing kettles in the trees. Bread and butterflies with fork and knives who like to make a meal of time.
Life is clockwork quick - lightning slow. Faster on your toes, so eat your sugared dream and taste the day before it runs away.
Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.