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Author Topic: 6x07 - Newbie Dash  (Read 3199 times)

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May 09, 2016, 11:56:44 AM
Reply #50
One thing, aside from all this, that did kind of bother me about the episode was that like... this was THE episode where Rainbow Dash became a wonderbolt. This is something that's been built up to since the very first episode, and it seemed like this episode... kind of downplayed it. I mean, when the CMC got their cutie marks, it was a HUGE event, a big musical episode. It felt very ceremonial. I'm not saying RD becoming a wonderbolt is as big a deal as the CMC getting their marks, but I think for something so big, the show should have treated it as more of a big deal.

May 09, 2016, 12:02:53 PM
Reply #51
And I believe I toned down my rhetorical exasperation after getting those responses.
That is true.  I did not realize that until I checked the dates of all these posts.  I apologize for that.


Derpy One's words in the first half of his second paragraph are what I meant and what I was trying to tell you.  I'm sorry that I did a poor job of getting that across.

May 09, 2016, 12:12:51 PM
Reply #52
I do agree with Andrew that your passive-aggressive remarks in Unpopular Opinions and elsewhere do feel like projection, though... that because you saw the moral of this episode as an endorsement of institutionalised bullying, and other members didn't necessarily have a problem with the episode, that you then seemed to conclude that other members therefore supported bullying. If that wasn't your intention then I apologise, but it's how I read it, along with other staff and members who have mentioned it to me.

I was venting my frustration over being so alone with an opinion that I had expected would be a no-brainer, something everybody could agree to. Nothing more.

Now, please, for everyone, can we drop the personal vendettas and just discuss the episode like adults? While the moral was perhaps a little sloppy in its execution I think we can reasonably conclude that the writers didn't set out to say that "bullying is okay!",

I don't know what the writers set out to do, but what they ended up with was an episode that said "this is okay" -- where "this" is a culture of hurtful nicknaming. In my book hurtful nicknaming done by a group is always a kind of bullying, no if or buts possible. So when the episode says that hurtful nicknaming is okay, it is according to my understanding saying that a particular kind of bullying is okay.

One can of course have the opinion that this particular behavior is acceptable without thereby thinking that every other kind of what-Henning-calls-bullying is acceptable too.

(Which really ought to go without saying. Everyone presumably makes their moral judgements about actual behavior, rather than the abstract classes I or anyone else categorize the particular behaviors in. If I use the word "bullying" about a certain set of behaviors, it doesn't at all follow that everyone else has to either condone everything I call bullying or condemn everything I call bullying. You cannot reason from "A thinks X is good" to "A thinks Y is good" simply because someone -- and someone entirely different from A -- classifies X together with Y).


That is true.  I did not realize that until I checked the dates of all these posts.  I apologize for that.
Thank you.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 12:38:43 PM by Henning Makholm »
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May 09, 2016, 01:35:12 PM
Reply #53
One thing, aside from all this, that did kind of bother me about the episode was that like... this was THE episode where Rainbow Dash became a wonderbolt. This is something that's been built up to since the very first episode, and it seemed like this episode... kind of downplayed it. I mean, when the CMC got their cutie marks, it was a HUGE event, a big musical episode. It felt very ceremonial. I'm not saying RD becoming a wonderbolt is as big a deal as the CMC getting their marks, but I think for something so big, the show should have treated it as more of a big deal.

Agreed, maybe they should had went for RD trying to fit in without the nickname issue? Really the nickname was the main focus, let me ask---"what" was the moral? I don't even know if it had one hence why I can't go on much.


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May 09, 2016, 01:48:04 PM
Reply #54
Having watched it today, I can see where Henning is coming from. That scene where Rainbow initially crashed and everyone laughed at her felt mean spirited rather then light hearted joshing. Yes, RD is arrogant and thinks a lot of herself at times, but as has been shown in previous episodes this is most likely because she is a very insecure pony. This is it- her big moment- where she joins the Wonderbolts, something she probably wasn't even sure she'd be good enough to do, and everyone laughs at her mishap? It wasn't made clear to her that everyone goes through this and it was meant affectionately, and I think that's where the episode misstep itself. I make fun of my friends all the time, colleagues too, but if it was someone new I would make it clear it was meant with good will. RD should have been part of the laugh rather then a victim of it, in sum.

I didn't really take the moral to be "suck it up" however but more to have confidence in yourself but not so much that it interferes with your work. Rainbow was so focused on being "awesome" that she neglected to care about the work she was there to do. It's ok to mess up. It's ok if people notice that mess up. Because it happens to all of us and instead of proving ourselves above that mistake, we should accept that mistakes happen- especially when we are new to something- and use it in order to learn and better ourselves.

This episode was not as good as the last three but still enjoyable. I liked her impressions of the other ponies and how enthusiastic Scootaloo was.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 01:52:48 PM by Vay »

May 09, 2016, 05:10:13 PM
Reply #55
I think everybody agrees that map duty would be more important. She represents the element of loyalty and this is what is unique about her. Especially when the map only call those who are the key to a friendship problem. And there are other wonderbolts to replace her if something important comes up.

True but what about when Dashie becomes an Alicorn Princess? :P

Agreed, maybe they should had went for RD trying to fit in without the nickname issue? Really the nickname was the main focus, let me ask---"what" was the moral? I don't even know if it had one hence why I can't go on much.

The moral was not to be over critical of yourself based on miner mistakes and assume the worst.  At least that's what I got out of it.  Dashie got hung up on her nickname and assumed it meant she wasn't good enough for the Wonderbolts even though none of them actually indicated anything like that.

Having watched it today, I can see where Henning is coming from. That scene where Rainbow initially crashed and everyone laughed at her felt mean spirited rather then light hearted joshing. Yes, RD is arrogant and thinks a lot of herself at times, but as has been shown in previous episodes this is most likely because she is a very insecure pony. This is it- her big moment- where she joins the Wonderbolts, something she probably wasn't even sure she'd be good enough to do, and everyone laughs at her mishap? It wasn't made clear to her that everyone goes through this and it was meant affectionately, and I think that's where the episode misstep itself. I make fun of my friends all the time, colleagues too, but if it was someone new I would make it clear it was meant with good will. RD should have been part of the laugh rather then a victim of it, in sum.

I didn't really take the moral to be "suck it up" however but more to have confidence in yourself but not so much that it interferes with your work. Rainbow was so focused on being "awesome" that she neglected to care about the work she was there to do. It's ok to mess up. It's ok if people notice that mess up. Because it happens to all of us and instead of proving ourselves above that mistake, we should accept that mistakes happen- especially when we are new to something- and use it in order to learn and better ourselves.

This episode was not as good as the last three but still enjoyable. I liked her impressions of the other ponies and how enthusiastic Scootaloo was.

Well the think is, Dash isn't new.  She's been in the reserves for a while and she was the top flier in the Academy as well as being probably the best general flier ever.  She's also famous for both saving Equestria and performing the Sonic Rainboom (a previously mythical feat).  I'd say it's fair to assume Spitefire and the other Bolts would think RD wouldn't care about a little teasing.  If you didn't know her like the rest of the Mane 6 (7) you'd think so to. 

Otherwise I agree.


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May 09, 2016, 08:25:30 PM
Reply #56
The moral was not to be over critical of yourself based on miner mistakes and assume the worst.  At least that's what I got out of it.  Dashie got hung up on her nickname and assumed it meant she wasn't good enough for the Wonderbolts even though none of them actually indicated anything like that.

It---was? I honestly did not see that, what I got was RD having issues brought back from her past as the nickname they just happen to use was the very name bullies teased her with as a filly. It made sense for her to try and change it, tho all she needed was tell them. "Take a bad nickname and make it a proud title" should've been done better by how much it bothered her.


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May 09, 2016, 08:38:44 PM
Reply #57
I thought the moral was to communicate. If Dash had said something to her teammates, I'm sure they would have explained. Instead, her pride didn't allow her to bring it up so she drove herself to dangerous stunts in an attempt to get a new nickname.
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May 09, 2016, 09:37:59 PM
Reply #58
One thing, aside from all this, that did kind of bother me about the episode was that like... this was THE episode where Rainbow Dash became a wonderbolt. This is something that's been built up to since the very first episode, and it seemed like this episode... kind of downplayed it. I mean, when the CMC got their cutie marks, it was a HUGE event, a big musical episode. It felt very ceremonial. I'm not saying RD becoming a wonderbolt is as big a deal as the CMC getting their marks, but I think for something so big, the show should have treated it as more of a big deal.

Yeah, admittedly I'm a little surprised it was a little unceremonious as well. Rainbow wanted to be a Wonderbolt is actually our very first known character goal. Predates the CMC's search for Cutie Marks by 9 episodes. And Twilight's princesshood was definitely not obvious just by the first 10 episodes.

I've actually been thinking if maybe they're waiting a little later to really get a little more celebration with all this. I think not all the loose ends in Wonderbolts Academy have been tied up as of yet. For one simple reason: Lightning Dust

Perhaps there's an episode coming up where Lightning Dust finally returns. And oh boy is things going to get even more heated between them now that Rainbow is officially a Wonderbolt. So there could be plenty of potential there. Having Rainbow confront once again the pony basically meant to be a look into what Rainbow Dash would be without her strong ideals and friendship would be perfect.

May 09, 2016, 10:14:37 PM
Reply #59

May 10, 2016, 04:41:17 PM
Reply #60
It---was? I honestly did not see that, what I got was RD having issues brought back from her past as the nickname they just happen to use was the very name bullies teased her with as a filly. It made sense for her to try and change it, tho all she needed was tell them. "Take a bad nickname and make it a proud title" should've been done better by how much it bothered her.

Well like I said, it was just how I read it.  Since they don't spell out the moral, and I wonder if episodes technically still have morals these days, it's open to interpretation. :-\

I thought the moral was to communicate. If Dash had said something to her teammates, I'm sure they would have explained. Instead, her pride didn't allow her to bring it up so she drove herself to dangerous stunts in an attempt to get a new nickname.

Yeah maybe.  Though that's arguably the moral of almost every Season 1 episode. :P


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May 11, 2016, 09:10:15 AM
Reply #61
Well like I said, it was just how I read it.  Since they don't spell out the moral, and I wonder if episodes technically still have morals these days, it's open to interpretation. :-\

Yeah maybe.  Though that's arguably the moral of almost every Season 1 episode. :P

Well suppose time for reviewers like Firey Joker, VoiceofReason, AnyPony, and Bronycurious to take a loo--wait what do you Tommy's no longer in the show!?


XD OK is that on DA anywhere?


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July 03, 2016, 06:18:09 PM
Reply #62
To be honest, this is the last episode I caught up on and it's just... eugh. I understand that the writers were trying to make the Wonderbolts like a military thing, but it's very hard to make that for the "target" audience (I'm not talking about us, but the people they aim the show at). It's a hard thing to do, and this time, it was a dud. However, everyone has a bad moment though!
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September 12, 2016, 11:08:07 PM
Reply #63
Just saw this for the first time in a while and--

What the holy hell, writers? What made you think that keeping the Wonderbolts jerkish was a good idea? Do you know how many people have seen Dash over the years, wanting more than anything else to join the Wonderbolts for six seasons, and because of the way you wrote them from seasons 3 through 5, people didn't want her to join the Wonderbolts because they felt like Dash was too good for them? And yet you seem to be doubling down on this aspect of them, and as a result, this is easily the worst episode of season 6 I've seen(I haven't seen Flutter Brutter, Cart Before the Ponies, and whatever followed that one).

I just...I couldn't stop thinking that Dash should have just left. It's amazing that they actually had the Wonderbolts say how awesome she was at the end(something that should have been done earlier), and yet they were written to be so horrible for most of the episode that it felt OOC for them to say that. How could you mess it up this badly?

Now, this isn't even in the top 10 worst episodes of the show. There's so much worse out there. But this just ticked me off on a personal level because the characterization of the Wonderbolts starting with season 3 was the worst mistake in the history of the show, and the fact that they seem to think this is the right direction for them just...yeah.

TOO MANY FLUTTERSHYING CONS

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September 13, 2016, 11:13:00 AM
Reply #64
Just saw this for the first time in a while and--

What the holy hell, writers? What made you think that keeping the Wonderbolts jerkish was a good idea? Do you know how many people have seen Dash over the years, wanting more than anything else to join the Wonderbolts for six seasons, and because of the way you wrote them from seasons 3 through 5, people didn't want her to join the Wonderbolts because they felt like Dash was too good for them? And yet you seem to be doubling down on this aspect of them, and as a result, this is easily the worst episode of season 6 I've seen(I haven't seen Flutter Brutter, Cart Before the Ponies, and whatever followed that one).

I just...I couldn't stop thinking that Dash should have just left. It's amazing that they actually had the Wonderbolts say how awesome she was at the end(something that should have been done earlier), and yet they were written to be so horrible for most of the episode that it felt OOC for them to say that. How could you mess it up this badly?

Now, this isn't even in the top 10 worst episodes of the show. There's so much worse out there. But this just ticked me off on a personal level because the characterization of the Wonderbolts starting with season 3 was the worst mistake in the history of the show, and the fact that they seem to think this is the right direction for them just...yeah.

I think the issue was the whole "oh we all have nicknames of our first day fails" comment. I mean, if that was said earlier it would had been fine and even perfect. But you meant o tell us, not only for the entire Ep, but for the entire lifespan of RD, that she never even heard of these nicknames until now? The main factor is this, why weren't their nicknames spoken until the very end?

It really comes off as the Wonderbolts "saying to RD's face to make her feel better" as up til then, their "nicknames" was never spoken and seemingly never even existed. "That's" the issue, them saying "oh we all have nicknames" and RD really should had asked "well, why didn't you even say them!?" but no, they all laughed and the WBs get off freely once again...to be jerks another day..

Never, ever, pull such things out of thin air. The only way for this to had worked was for the nicknames to be spoken "during" the Ep but RD was too caught up in her feelings to notice them. RD, the biggest WB fan, her not knowing the nicknames is a stretch but is believable. But RD training with the WBs, and even flying with them in more than 1 Ep AND STILL NOT KNOW THEM, YEAH! That's the issue here!

Wanna bet the WBs DID lie to RD's face? Because I honestly refuse to buy that they "forget" to say their nicknames while RD is in earshot. Either they did lie about the nicknames, or held them back just to prank and tease the newbie. Those are the only 2 choices we have here, they lied, or were teasing RD for fun and just told her the nicknames to stop her from near killing herself again. CAN ANYBODY find a 3rd choice without?


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September 16, 2016, 03:13:06 AM
Reply #65
I just...I couldn't stop thinking that Dash should have just left.

Preach it.
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September 16, 2016, 10:28:23 PM
Reply #66
I think the issue was the whole "oh we all have nicknames of our first day fails" comment. I mean, if that was said earlier it would had been fine and even perfect. But you meant o tell us, not only for the entire Ep, but for the entire lifespan of RD, that she never even heard of these nicknames until now? The main factor is this, why weren't their nicknames spoken until the very end?

It really comes off as the Wonderbolts "saying to RD's face to make her feel better" as up til then, their "nicknames" was never spoken and seemingly never even existed. "That's" the issue, them saying "oh we all have nicknames" and RD really should had asked "well, why didn't you even say them!?" but no, they all laughed and the WBs get off freely once again...to be jerks another day..

Never, ever, pull such things out of thin air. The only way for this to had worked was for the nicknames to be spoken "during" the Ep but RD was too caught up in her feelings to notice them. RD, the biggest WB fan, her not knowing the nicknames is a stretch but is believable. But RD training with the WBs, and even flying with them in more than 1 Ep AND STILL NOT KNOW THEM, YEAH! That's the issue here!

Wanna bet the WBs DID lie to RD's face? Because I honestly refuse to buy that they "forget" to say their nicknames while RD is in earshot. Either they did lie about the nicknames, or held them back just to prank and tease the newbie. Those are the only 2 choices we have here, they lied, or were teasing RD for fun and just told her the nicknames to stop her from near killing herself again. CAN ANYBODY find a 3rd choice without?
The episode is clearly trying to pitch us the second option, and the logic of the whole thing(not to mention, them being OOC when they talk about this stuff) just falls apart when you spend any time thinking about it. I get the feeling several people were reminded of bullies in their lives when they saw the Wonderbolts here, and that only makes things worse because the episode is telling you that you should just accept it because it's normal to them.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2016, 10:29:17 PM by Felix Hawthorne »

TOO MANY FLUTTERSHYING CONS

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October 01, 2016, 05:18:09 PM
Reply #67
The wonderbolts being legitimately terrible ponies is now canon.