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Author Topic: What happened to bits?  (Read 4783 times)

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October 28, 2015, 03:28:16 AM
Reply #25
My personal opinion for why it would potentially be good is because of a little word known as "rewards".

Hypothetical scenario START!

Say a new member shows up. They make an intro thread and then maybe one or two posts in the new episode thread and How Was Your Day.
Two weeks and 12 posts later, they disappear.
... This happens a lot.

If, however, you are physically rewarded for posting, suddenly those two weeks of dredging around the forum looking for a place to frequent, 12 posts is now 56 posts and a title labeled "Earnest Wonderbolt Trainee".

Basically, people like rewards and achievements. And if getting one requires minimal effort, they're gonna go for it. In doing so they'll hypothetically meet members and unintentionally become used to the community.

The only real problem I see this causing would be members spamming boards with posts attempting to farm the rewards. Though this is easily managed.

This is my point exactly.
"if all the stars in the sky are my enemy,
May they know that they are still not worthy opponents."

October 28, 2015, 04:19:39 AM
Reply #26
Say a new member shows up. They make an intro thread and then maybe one or two posts in the new episode thread and How Was Your Day.
Two weeks and 12 posts later, they disappear.
... This happens a lot.

But how do you think it would make it happen less often by making them look at a "nyah nyah, you have only 12 posts, you noob" banner next to their posts?

That's the OPPOSITE of a reward. It would give people the impression that what they have to say is valued less simply because they are new.

Also, number of posts is a horrible way to measure achievements or contributions to the forum in the first place. If I'm respected on the forum, I would much rather be so for what I'm actually saying, than for the number of two-line RP posts I've made.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2015, 04:21:01 AM by Henning Makholm »
OC descriptions here
Using my fancy mathematics to model the issues since 2013.

October 28, 2015, 04:33:21 AM
Reply #27
How many people do you know that pick up a controller and then put it back down when they realize they might have to start? Cause that's what your making people out to be, have some faith. And honestly, it doesn't mark that your better, it just says you've been active and long lasting which both equal productive members of the forum.

In a community like this respect is a loose term, all you need to do is not be mean, it's that simple.

When I walk into a forum and 'I' see the rankings, it gives me a good (with wiggle room) Guage of where everyone lies in the community, if someone has only two posts, chances are nobody does know who he is, and if he has thousands like us, then people probably know who they are.
And it's not like anyone is actually gonna stare at your title and judge you with it, people hardly do that to the mods here, and they actually HAVE power.
Your theory on everyone being scared assumes they all suffer from social anxiety and a failure to use basic cognative thought to figure out how to talk without being told by a title. Last time I checked, everyone here from before member plus was removed are all proof of people being able to handle it, and that system actually WAS broken. (I apologize if I seem rude, I'm just making my case.)
"if all the stars in the sky are my enemy,
May they know that they are still not worthy opponents."

October 28, 2015, 05:31:09 AM
Reply #28
When I walk into a forum and 'I' see the rankings, it gives me a good (with wiggle room) Guage of where everyone lies in the community, if someone has only two posts, chances are nobody does know who he is, and if he has thousands like us, then people probably know who they are.

That's exactly what I like that this forum DOES NOT reek of.

Here one's points and opinions are as good as they are in themselves. One doesn't need to first earn the right to have what one says taken seriously -- if what you say is good people will listen, and if it isn't then they won't.

And it's not like anyone is actually gonna stare at your title and judge you with it,

If the badges-of-noob-shame are not going to be stared at, then why have them at all?

Your theory on everyone being scared assumes they all suffer from social anxiety and a failure to use basic cognative thought to figure out how to talk without being told by a title.

I don't get what you're trying to say here. It is your plan that is predicated on an assumption that people need to have titles in order to determine who they respect or not.

I say that looking at what people actually say is enough to determine whether to respect them or not. People who are worth talking to don't need the crutch of post-count ranks to decide who they will talk to.

Therefore, NOT having prominently displayed post counts is a clear signal to newcomers that this is a forum populated by the kind of people who don't need them -- a forum where they have a chance of being taken seriously from the outset.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2015, 05:36:55 AM by Henning Makholm »
OC descriptions here
Using my fancy mathematics to model the issues since 2013.

October 28, 2015, 05:47:17 AM
Reply #29
Quote from: Henning Makholm
Here one's points and opinions are as good as they are in themselves. One doesn't need to first earn the right to have what one says taken seriously -- if what you say is good people will listen, and if it isn't then they won't.

Quote from: Henning Makholm
I don't get what you're trying to say here. It is your plan that is predicated on an assumption that people need to have titles in order to determine who they respect or not.
I don't see them saying anything remotely close to this  ???

It's a simple marker of "X Person has made this many posts [over X period of days]". If what a person has to say is taken seriously or not won't have anything to do with the title, the quality of the post is what matters. A title wouldn't change that.

Quote from: Henning Makholm
If the badges-of-noob-shame are not going to be stared at, then why have them at all?

If, however, you are physically rewarded for posting, suddenly those two weeks of dredging around the forum looking for a place to frequent, 12 posts is now 56 posts and a title labeled "Earnest Wonderbolt Trainee".

Basically, people like rewards and achievements. And if getting one requires minimal effort, they're gonna go for it. In doing so they'll hypothetically meet members and unintentionally become used to the community.

Also other stuff Maverick said that I'm too tired to splice out.

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October 28, 2015, 06:01:19 AM
Reply #30
It's a simple marker of "X Person has made this many posts [over X period of days]". If what a person has to say is taken seriously or not won't have anything to do with the title, the quality of the post is what matters. A title wouldn't change that.

The ABSENCE of such "simple markers" is a clear and unambiguous signal that post counts don't determine who can get listened to. That signal is something I LIKED about this forum from the beginning. I think it would be a mistake to take it away.
OC descriptions here
Using my fancy mathematics to model the issues since 2013.

October 28, 2015, 06:26:36 AM
Reply #31
I think you're making a bigger deal of this than it is. It's hardly a "badge of noob shame", and I have never once in my Internet life met someone who thought that way. I've only ever seen positive things come of a title system like that. Users who have been around a while taking new members under their wing, getting to know them more and encouraging their activity on the forums. New members seeing a cool title and looking forward to getting it.

Certainly, if one were kind of fanatical, they could post a whole bunch in an attempt to get a title faster, but that would be handled by the mod team. I honestly don't think anything at all will change in terms of quality posts, and I think there would be more people in favor than not. Obviously it's something that warrants more discussion, and I hope that everyone trusts that we would not make any decision lightly. We all love this forum and don't want to see anything bad happen to it, so please trust us.
Ask me anything!

Skype: sinceritystar | AIM: xcatxstarx | PSN: Atiqua | XBL: Aviendra

October 28, 2015, 06:39:00 AM
Reply #32
I'm against them. I could see the appeal in big bustling forums, but this one is so tight-knit. Everyone knows everyone, so there's really no need to make badges to see how well integrated you are or whatever. We already know that.


And no one even knows how to do this.
To love another person is to see the face of God


October 28, 2015, 06:42:55 AM
Reply #33
I think you're making a bigger deal of this than it is.

I dunno. It may only be a small loss for the forum to gain such a badge system, but it would be some size of loss. I'm not sure if you're saying I'm supposed to care about things that would be complete disasters for the forum, and not about ones that would simply make it a slightly less welcoming place.

I've only ever seen positive things come of a title system like that.

So, you're saying that it doesn't count (or I'm lying?) when I say that the absence of badges gave me a favorable impression when I joined the forum?
OC descriptions here
Using my fancy mathematics to model the issues since 2013.

October 28, 2015, 07:00:33 AM
Reply #34
I dunno. It may only be a small loss for the forum to gain such a badge system, but it would be some size of loss. I'm not sure if you're saying I'm supposed to care about things that would be complete disasters for the forum, and not about ones that would simply make it a slightly less welcoming place.

So, you're saying that it doesn't count (or I'm lying?) when I say that the absence of badges gave me a favorable impression when I joined the forum?

Please don't read in to what I was saying. My overall point was that previously on other forums I have been on, I haven't seen anything bad come of it. I wasn't trying to pick on you or single you out or belittle you in any way. Of course my words can be picked apart, but I feel like my post, particularly the second paragraph, gives the impression that I care about what happens here.
Ask me anything!

Skype: sinceritystar | AIM: xcatxstarx | PSN: Atiqua | XBL: Aviendra

October 28, 2015, 07:26:50 AM
Reply #35
Of course my words can be picked apart, but I feel like my post, particularly the second paragraph, gives the impression that I care about what happens here.

I'm confused here. When did the discussion become about "whether or not Sincerity cares about the forum"?

As far as I'm concerned it is about whether a particular change would benefit or ham the forum.
OC descriptions here
Using my fancy mathematics to model the issues since 2013.

October 28, 2015, 07:27:32 AM
Reply #36
I think they could be quite a fun little additive. It's not meant to be anything taken seriously. I acknowledge and understand the points people are making against them but overall I don't think they will cause that much of a problem.

I can take it or leave it. If more people like the idea then I'm on board.

October 28, 2015, 07:30:15 AM
Reply #37
I think they could be quite a fun little additive. It's not meant to be anything taken seriously

But what they are meant for -- or even how people use them in practice -- has no real bearing on what actual impression the presence or absence of badge ranks gives new users.
OC descriptions here
Using my fancy mathematics to model the issues since 2013.

October 28, 2015, 07:43:16 AM
Reply #38
But what they are meant for -- or even how people use them in practice -- has no real bearing on what actual impression the presence or absence of badge ranks gives new users.

Well personally I've been a new member to boards with them and I still enjoyed them. It's kind of like having Learner Plates or Pass Plates on your car. It makes people aware you are new and then they are more accommodating to you and give you the space and time to adjust to the forum. I don't imagine anyone here using them in a cruel way- I know our member base and I can't imagine anyone here sneering at someone just for being new.

Is there a chance someone might be put off to have "hey I'm new!" on their profile? Yeah maybe, but in all likelihood it's not going to put them off posting and getting involved in the community. We are all new at some point and all have to start somewhere. There's no shame in being new or just starting in getting into a community.

October 28, 2015, 09:58:23 AM
Reply #39
Here's the bottom line for me.
Step 1: we have a problem obtainin and keeping new members.
Step 2: The only hypothesis that includes a change suggests people lack incentive.
Step3: Because we lack hard evedince, we should try it if possible; expirament.
Step 4: If people like it and the numbers of members increase, we keep it, otherwise we scrap it and no one was hurt.
"if all the stars in the sky are my enemy,
May they know that they are still not worthy opponents."

October 28, 2015, 01:32:21 PM
Reply #40
I'm confused here. When did the discussion become about "whether or not Sincerity cares about the forum"?

As far as I'm concerned it is about whether a particular change would benefit or ham the forum.
I...What? Henning, please, don't pick apart every little thing j say. It's very hard to communicate when you do. As I said before, my overall point was that I have not experienced anything bad from any sort of title system on a forum. I think we will just have to agree to disagree here, because obviously neither of us are going to change the other's mind.
Ask me anything!

Skype: sinceritystar | AIM: xcatxstarx | PSN: Atiqua | XBL: Aviendra

October 28, 2015, 01:44:50 PM
Reply #41
I...What? Henning, please, don't pick apart every little thing j say. It's very hard to communicate when you do.

It's very hard to communicate when you say things I don't understand the point of, and then react in this way to requests to explain what I should have understood by them.

I ignored the "I care about what is best for the forum" paragraph the first time because I didn't seem to be related to the discussion at hand. Ignoring it was obviously not the right thing to do, because you then responded by explicitly pointing to that paragraph once again. Then I tried asking you what the point you were trying to make was (since it was apparently important to you that I get it), and now that is wrong too? What do you actually expect me to do here?
« Last Edit: October 28, 2015, 02:00:12 PM by Henning Makholm »
OC descriptions here
Using my fancy mathematics to model the issues since 2013.

October 28, 2015, 01:46:05 PM
Reply #42
I'm not crazy about this idea honestly.


I mean it could work I guess, but I don't really see how its necessary.

I'd much rather see the friends feature fixed before I saw this system put in place, but from what I understand there is hardly any point to do that because the community is so small.

I guess the same logic can be applied to applied to the proposed  ranking system as well.

 :-\
              

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EqF's CAH deck code: RDSS3

October 28, 2015, 01:54:02 PM
Reply #43
I feel like this can work, but maybe limit the total user titles to 2 or 3. Maybe 4.
| 3DS FC: 4055-4094-4151 | Living Pokédex COMPLETED: 10/26/2017 |
| Sonic the Hedgehog, The Simpsons and Pokémon Junkie | Graduate of Kutztown University of Pennsylvania -- Class of 2016 |


"Smarter than the average Lisa."

October 28, 2015, 02:06:54 PM
Reply #44
Here's the bottom line for me.
Step 1: we have a problem obtainin and keeping new members.
Step 2: The only hypothesis that includes a change suggests people lack incentive.
Step3: Because we lack hard evedince, we should try it if possible; expirament.
Step 4: If people like it and the numbers of members increase, we keep it, otherwise we scrap it and no one was hurt.
I cannot even begin to believe that this was ignored in exchange for drama.
"if all the stars in the sky are my enemy,
May they know that they are still not worthy opponents."

October 28, 2015, 02:20:26 PM
Reply #45
I cannot even begin to believe that this was ignored in exchange for drama.
Only reason I ignored it is because I literally just got home from school  :monster:

And yeah, Step 4 is a great point, if it ends up not working out and causes more problems then it solves, then it can just go the path of M+ and bits.

Also just to comment on this, already mentioned in a super secret thread but might as well state my opinion on the idea publicly

I feel like this can work, but maybe limit the total user titles to 2 or 3. Maybe 4.
If there's only 3 titles then there would literally be no point, half the members with several thousand posts would be one title, the other half with a few hundred to a thousand would be another title, then the new members would all be the same title. If we test it out, we should give it some depth and detail otherwise it won't be interesting in the least. Plus there would be OBSCENE levels of "grinding" in order to "level up", it'd be like playing an MMO where you need 6 quadrillion exp to level up. If progression goes more along the lines of 0-5-25-50-100-250-500-750-1000-1250-1500-2000 then users can actually see the difference over time.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2015, 02:22:37 PM by Mirage Seraph »

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October 28, 2015, 02:23:59 PM
Reply #46
Only reason I ignored it is because I literally just got home from school  :monster:

And yeah, Step 4 is a great point, if it ends up not working out and causes more problems then it solves, then it can just go the path of M+ and bits.

Members already here won't leave or something so insignificant. New members is what we're worrying about, and choosing not do anything is really just not trying at all. At least if we test it we can find out how it changes the stats.
"if all the stars in the sky are my enemy,
May they know that they are still not worthy opponents."

October 28, 2015, 02:38:01 PM
Reply #47
And yeah, Step 4 is a great point, if it ends up not working out and causes more problems then it solves, then it can just go the path of M+ and bits.

How will you know which problems it causes?

Back when I needed a pony forum and joined the one that looked most welcoming (in part, because it had no status games based on post seniority), I certainly didn't contact the staff of the forums I didn't join to tell them why.
OC descriptions here
Using my fancy mathematics to model the issues since 2013.

October 28, 2015, 02:46:56 PM
Reply #48
How will you know which problems it causes?

Back when I needed a pony forum and joined the one that looked most welcoming (in part, because it had no status games based on post seniority), I certainly didn't contact the staff of the forums I didn't join to tell them why.
Because we don't need you to see the forum stats.
"if all the stars in the sky are my enemy,
May they know that they are still not worthy opponents."

October 28, 2015, 02:52:28 PM
Reply #49
Because we don't need you to see the forum stats.

Now why would forbidding people to see forum stats being a thing? I'm curious.
| 3DS FC: 4055-4094-4151 | Living Pokédex COMPLETED: 10/26/2017 |
| Sonic the Hedgehog, The Simpsons and Pokémon Junkie | Graduate of Kutztown University of Pennsylvania -- Class of 2016 |


"Smarter than the average Lisa."